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10 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Probably, except that Ken also went with Barbie and a Karen is not a Barbie so from that direction it's a mismatch.

Maybe Ken was just cheating on Karen with Barbie.... ?

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14 minutes ago, Oblong said:

 

I've read that some school districts will get rid of snow days and instead go virtual.  Boo on that.  Give the kids the fun of having a snow day.  Not everyone is equipped to just jump into a virtual environment anyway.  Especially if more people are set up to work from home. What used to be for some an off day to be there with the kids at home will turn into a "work from home day" but they won't be able to hover over the kid to make sure they are online, etc.  And unless most of the kids are participating then it's just a wasted effort.  Not to mention the teacher may have to watch over his own kid and not be in a position to lead zoom classes all day.  

 

I agree to a point. On the plus side, the virtual classrooms has allowed teachers and other educators to develop resources that were not there before the pandemic that may allow them to become better equipped to handle the classroom and class sizes.

A large part of my wife’s job this past year was the development and implementation of the Michigan Learning Chanel. It gives teachers and parents an additional tool to help students. I think it’s primary focus right now is K thru 4 (maybe up to 6), but it supplements what is being taught in the classroom. A lot of it is on demand.

If it clears up the understanding of the “new math” and does some remedial work to assist parents who are just as confused as their kids are sometime. It also frees up the teachers with larger class loads to divide the class and work more with smaller groups, if needed.

The kids need their snow days, but the option for online teaching is another tool in the teacher’s and parents toolbox.

 

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

The aspect JBK talks about would be a net positive in my view.  More distancing and fewer handshakes and hugs would be fine with me. I would guess it will a positive for introverts and a negative for extroverts.  I am more interested to see what other changes become permanent such as more people working at home.  I believe this will be largely a benefit to society in multiple ways.  Also, different types of jobs have become popular such as Instacart and grubhub.  It will be interesting to see whether that keeps up. I know I am going to keep using instacart, at least some of the time.  There are a lot more people enjoying the outdoors due to Covid.  That is another trend to watch as things open up.  There are some negatives too.  For example, a lot of people have become traumatized by Covid.  There will likely be more anxiety about being around other people and this won't go away quickly.   

I tend to lean in that direction also.  I think net positive (or whatever term you want to use, NOT accounting for the past, but only the future), but I do wonder about the other aspect of it.  The mental aspect.  Like you mention introvert -v- extravert, but even the introvert needs some contact.  I guess using your reasoning we would need to know the % of people who were intro -v- extra to get a good gauge on society as a whole.  I would have guessed 20 years ago most people would have been considered extra and todays society may actually be leaning towards intro...I am not sure how I feel about that.

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1 hour ago, Melody said:

My oldest daughter has signed up for some sort of Police Academy training in a community north of us.   On successful completion, she will be certified to work as a citizen volunteer with police doing various chores.  As I understand it, it is a bit more hands on than the code blue we have down here but I'm not sure exactly what she will be doing.  Anyway, every week she texts us from class about the crazies in her class.  Last night, she says, "Police showing excellent deescalation skills out here. ?Big blow up argument over masking. ?"   then, "Whatever a male Karen is called getting so mad."  Anyway, it is a mostly GOP crowd (daughter is on the centrist liberal side of the political spectrum) but the conservatives were the loudest about telling the guy to "stfu."  Dude was having a problem with businesses being able to require masks and kept confronting the officers about arresting people for not wearing masks.  The officers were saying, "No.  We aren't arresting people for being unmasked.  We are enforcing trespassing."  It went on for an extended time.  Finally this lady lawyer, a conservative, yells at him to "just shut up and wear the mask or shop somewhere else."   Pretty funny stuff.  Daughter stayed out of it and texted us a blow by blow.  I was howling laughing.  I'm suspecting (hoping) that dude won't be certified at the end of the training.  

BTW, what IS a male Karen called?

Probably Paul or Kevin maybe....according to the internet it is Chad.

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1 hour ago, CMRivdog said:

I agree to a point. On the plus side, the virtual classrooms has allowed teachers and other educators to develop resources that were not there before the pandemic that may allow them to become better equipped to handle the classroom and class sizes.

A large part of my wife’s job this past year was the development and implementation of the Michigan Learning Chanel. It gives teachers and parents an additional tool to help students. I think it’s primary focus right now is K thru 4 (maybe up to 6), but it supplements what is being taught in the classroom. A lot of it is on demand.

If it clears up the understanding of the “new math” and does some remedial work to assist parents who are just as confused as their kids are sometime. It also frees up the teachers with larger class loads to divide the class and work more with smaller groups, if needed.

The kids need their snow days, but the option for online teaching is another tool in the teacher’s and parents toolbox.

 

My kids have been back 2 days a week for a month or so.  2 classes in the whole school on the days they are there...only 6 kids total in my twins class.  I would love nothing more than for that to continue.  Drop everything and throw the check book at education, do it now...make 30 kid classes a thing of the past and allow teachers to REALLY make a difference with 5-10 kids MAX per class....hire ALL the teachers, build new schools all over, raise the average salary from 30k (or whatever it is) to 100K immediately...you will see the education system flourish and you will see a future that is truly limitless.

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1 hour ago, John_Brian_K said:

My kids have been back 2 days a week for a month or so.  2 classes in the whole school on the days they are there...only 6 kids total in my twins class.  I would love nothing more than for that to continue.  Drop everything and throw the check book at education, do it now...make 30 kid classes a thing of the past and allow teachers to REALLY make a difference with 5-10 kids MAX per class....hire ALL the teachers, build new schools all over, raise the average salary from 30k (or whatever it is) to 100K immediately...you will see the education system flourish and you will see a future that is truly limitless.

That sounds similar to the University Model school my youngest attended for high school.  It was a Christian school, but the method would be usable for secular education as well.   Her school was fully state accredited, though I think some of them are not.  It was a great option for us.

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4 hours ago, CMRivdog said:

I agree to a point. On the plus side, the virtual classrooms has allowed teachers and other educators to develop resources that were not there before the pandemic that may allow them to become better equipped to handle the classroom and class sizes.

A large part of my wife’s job this past year was the development and implementation of the Michigan Learning Chanel. It gives teachers and parents an additional tool to help students. I think it’s primary focus right now is K thru 4 (maybe up to 6), but it supplements what is being taught in the classroom. A lot of it is on demand.

If it clears up the understanding of the “new math” and does some remedial work to assist parents who are just as confused as their kids are sometime. It also frees up the teachers with larger class loads to divide the class and work more with smaller groups, if needed.

The kids need their snow days, but the option for online teaching is another tool in the teacher’s and parents toolbox.

 

But, muh taxes!  How will we pay for it? They only work 9 months a year!?!?  They're all a bunch of libruls trying to brainwash my child!  

It's hard enough to even keep the status quo, getting minimal proposals passed for basic necessities. Unfortunately, with mostly old people who vote in those bond/school board elections and less young people having children, I don't see that changing any time soon.  While I wish the pandemic enlightened  minds regarding the value of teachers and investing in education, I think it's just the opposite.  Those same people think the teacher is just sitting at the computer for a few hours a week and making bank while the parent is doing all the work.  But as long as we keep them boys in dresses from playing sports, it's all good.

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13 hours ago, Kacie said:

But, muh taxes!  How will we pay for it? They only work 9 months a year!?!?  They're all a bunch of libruls trying to brainwash my child!  

It's hard enough to even keep the status quo, getting minimal proposals passed for basic necessities. Unfortunately, with mostly old people who vote in those bond/school board elections and less young people having children, I don't see that changing any time soon.  While I wish the pandemic enlightened  minds regarding the value of teachers and investing in education, I think it's just the opposite.  Those same people think the teacher is just sitting at the computer for a few hours a week and making bank while the parent is doing all the work.  But as long as we keep them boys in dresses from playing sports, it's all good.

While I hate libraries, schools, police, and arts up for a millage vote, they always seem to pass. (Not that I hate those things, but just millage votes in general annoy me, whatever the millage vote raises just gets removed from the general fund) At least it seems that way to me in my time in Warren and New Baltimore.  I think folks would be attune to pay more for education especially if they saw it directly attributing to smaller class sizes.  All new buildings, etc, that would get expensive, but we know virtual can work, a mix of virtual and in school might be able to attain that while not having to completely rebuild the infrastructure to support it.  

Are there really folks that don't value teachers though?  I've argued that they aren't as underpayed as the narrative says, at least in Michigan, and I don't think they work as much as they like they say they do, but I don't know anyone that says teachers do nothing.  The starting pay in Michigan is under 40, but the average is over 60, which means tenured teachers are making 80k plus.  Add in the fact that it's one of the last occupations to come with a full pension after 25-30 years.  Family members and friends I know are making close to 100k (several were above that prior to cuts in the last few years).  I'm not saying they don't deserve that pay, but pointing it out as the liberal narrative I always hear is that teachers make about 30k.  And yes, they do only work 9 months out of the year, it's a perk and should be noted as such.  And no, they don't work from 6am - Midnight, just because during the school year they have to get up at 6 to get ready for work, that doesn't count as working.  (sorry, just airing my grievances I hear from friends/family that are teachers)

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1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

While I hate libraries, schools, police, and arts up for a millage vote, they always seem to pass. (Not that I hate those things, but just millage votes in general annoy me, whatever the millage vote raises just gets removed from the general fund) At least it seems that way to me in my time in Warren and New Baltimore.  I think folks would be attune to pay more for education especially if they saw it directly attributing to smaller class sizes.  All new buildings, etc, that would get expensive, but we know virtual can work, a mix of virtual and in school might be able to attain that while not having to completely rebuild the infrastructure to support it.  

Are there really folks that don't value teachers though?  I've argued that they aren't as underpayed as the narrative says, at least in Michigan, and I don't think they work as much as they like they say they do, but I don't know anyone that says teachers do nothing.  The starting pay in Michigan is under 40, but the average is over 60, which means tenured teachers are making 80k plus.  Add in the fact that it's one of the last occupations to come with a full pension after 25-30 years.  Family members and friends I know are making close to 100k (several were above that prior to cuts in the last few years).  I'm not saying they don't deserve that pay, but pointing it out as the liberal narrative I always hear is that teachers make about 30k.  And yes, they do only work 9 months out of the year, it's a perk and should be noted as such.  And no, they don't work from 6am - Midnight, just because during the school year they have to get up at 6 to get ready for work, that doesn't count as working.  (sorry, just airing my grievances I hear from friends/family that are teachers)

My understanding from teacher friends is that in MI things have changed and that my generation of teachers, meaning those in their mid to late 40's, who've been doing it now for 20-25 years, are the last ones who "had it good".  I don't know the specifics but a few have shared that with me when we talk about kids now going into the teaching profession.  "It isn't like it used to be" is what I am told.

 

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26 minutes ago, Oblong said:

My understanding from teacher friends is that in MI things have changed and that my generation of teachers, meaning those in their mid to late 40's, who've been doing it now for 20-25 years, are the last ones who "had it good".  I don't know the specifics but a few have shared that with me when we talk about kids now going into the teaching profession.  "It isn't like it used to be" is what I am told.

 

My understanding is that, with regards to teaching, that the $40k starting salary comes with a lot more educational requirements than has previously been required. Which, with education costs being high, means more tuition, more money spent and, inevitably, more student loan debt. And a lot of the benefits of being a teacher depend on where you live... Texas is pretty good for the region (not to mention with our growth, meaning more job opportunities). Oklahoma? Not so much.... which probably explains why Fort Worth ISD has been known to advertise in places like Tulsa and OKC trying to poach talent.

Additionally, I don't know that I buy "they only work 9 months" as a truism everywhere.... at least in the district where I have family working, teachers do have to come in and work at least some of the time during summer months. Also, given that teachers take their work home at night (ie. grading papers) a lot of the time, I definitely buy that they are working more than someone like myself (with an 8-5 job) during the school year.

It really is an undervalued profession, and I don't know that people have a good grasp for how it has evolved.

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11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

My understanding is that, with regards to teaching, that the $40k starting salary comes with a lot more educational requirements than has previously been required. Which, with education costs being high, means more tuition, more money spent and, inevitably, more student loan debt. And a lot of the benefits of being a teacher depend on where you live... Texas is pretty good for the region (not to mention with our growth, meaning more job opportunities). Oklahoma? Not so much.... which probably explains why Fort Worth ISD has been known to advertise in places like Tulsa and OKC trying to poach talent.

Additionally, I don't know that I buy "they only work 9 months" as a truism everywhere.... at least in the district where I have family working, teachers do have to come in and work at least some of the time during summer months. Also, given that teachers take their work home at night (ie. grading papers) a lot of the time, I definitely buy that they are working more than someone like myself (with an 8-5 job) during the school year.

It really is an undervalued profession, and I don't know that people have a good grasp for how it has evolved.

The one thing that stands out for me is simply having to be "on" all day long... for example here I am at 9:38 am posting on an MB.  I'm still working but I took a 60 second break before starting up my next task before my 10 am meeting.  As a teacher I couldn't just stagger into work after being at a baseball game the night before and drinking probably too much and just veg out at my desk all day and tell people to leave me alone.  

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42 minutes ago, Oblong said:

My understanding from teacher friends is that in MI things have changed and that my generation of teachers, meaning those in their mid to late 40's, who've been doing it now for 20-25 years, are the last ones who "had it good".  I don't know the specifics but a few have shared that with me when we talk about kids now going into the teaching profession.  "It isn't like it used to be" is what I am told.

That's what I'm told by friends/family as well, but when I push them to drill down on why, generally the only difference I hear is the low initial pay lingers longer than it used to and the pension isn't a lock anymore.  The horror when they were asked to pay a 5 dollar co-pay on prescriptions as well.  My understanding is you can choose pension, hybrid pension/401k, or 401k.  (Note, i'm saying 401k, might be a slightly different name as a government based retirement fund).  Initially the concern on the pension was that it would mean it's gone, but sounds like most younger teachers are choosing the 401k.  My only point is, the benefits are still really good.  When I was coming out of high school there was a shortage of teachers and what my friends that pursued teaching were always told is that while the pay isn't great, the benefits and time off were big advantages that made up for it a bit.  The benefits are still better than private industry and the time off is still a benefit, but you're often shamed if you point that out.  

An old co-worker's whose daughter just left the state to start a career as a teacher.  She's adamant that it was the best thing for her daughter as Michigan teachers have it so bad, but then she went to a southern state and maybe i'm wrong, but I feel like they bought into the 'michigan teachers have it so rough' mantra.  

26 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

My sister is an elementary school teacher, and from what I gather, she makes about $40k at best. The worst part about the job apparently is dealing with the parents. 

One friend of mine worked in a school where the demographic of kids were that boys did nothing wrong and girls just went to school for the free babysitting as there is no value in education for them.  Elementary work as well.  I think the years there completely demoralized her and while she has quite a few parent stories, that had to be the worst feeling.  

I kind of piled on teachers earlier, but they do deserve good pay and benefits and even more importantly, they need some freedom to do their jobs.  Lots of changes could be done outside of the classroom which would directly benefit the classroom.   They have taken some cuts in the last few years too and as we're seeing other salaries raised, they should see it too.  By no means is it an easy job, but like most jobs, there are advantages and drawbacks to it.  

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10 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

That's what I'm told by friends/family as well, but when I push them to drill down on why, generally the only difference I hear is the low initial pay lingers longer than it used to and the pension isn't a lock anymore.  The horror when they were asked to pay a 5 dollar co-pay on prescriptions as well.  My understanding is you can choose pension, hybrid pension/401k, or 401k.  (Note, i'm saying 401k, might be a slightly different name as a government based retirement fund).  Initially the concern on the pension was that it would mean it's gone, but sounds like most younger teachers are choosing the 401k.  My only point is, the benefits are still really good.  When I was coming out of high school there was a shortage of teachers and what my friends that pursued teaching were always told is that while the pay isn't great, the benefits and time off were big advantages that made up for it a bit.  The benefits are still better than private industry and the time off is still a benefit, but you're often shamed if you point that out.  

It stands to reason that if the benefits weren't good, less people may want to be teachers.

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29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

My sister is an elementary school teacher, and from what I gather, she makes about $40k at best. The worst part about the job apparently is dealing with the parents. 

Yes, the bad apples make the job frustrating, and it sometimes helps my wife understand what a kid might be dealing with once they leave school.

I have a relative who decided she was going to home school her 3 kids because, hey, it ain't that tough.  It lasted all of a year.  And my wife sees this at her school to an extreme.  There's a family that has home schooled every other year.  Now, I'm sure some people can do it.  But its a little more involved than some flash cards and crayons.

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My sister is pretty smart. She has an MBA and tried the corporate world and didn't like it. She went back to school for her teaching certificate and teaches because she likes it. Her husband makes good money so she doesn't need the job. She didn't take the job because of the pay and benefits. She had an opportunity to teach in Detroit Public Schools which pay better but no one is touching that dumpster fire. I'm not sure if she gets a pension but my family has been burned on public pensions so she would probably do her own retirement account. 

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