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Coronavirus: Coming to a Neighborhood Near You?


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2 minutes ago, pfife said:

They're definitely of higher risk of hospitalization & what else could follow that from the virus, so it definitely makes sense from an efficient use of vaccines perspective, but that it's because of a personal choice to engage in an activity that increases your risk doesn't sit will with me. 

I agree.  But then, so many of the increased risk categories  (e.g. obesity, incarceration) are also from personal choices.   

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16 minutes ago, Melody said:

I agree.  But then, so many of the increased risk categories  (e.g. obesity, incarceration) are also from personal choices.   

and even 'obvious' situations like obesity - how much is choice? How much is genes, how much is how our parents fed us when our personal biochemistry was being imprinted? Clearly there are people who could easily eat less and lose weight, but recent research says for a lot of people there may not be much choice involved - at least not the way a reasonable person understands 'choice'

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

and even 'obvious' situations like obesity - how much is choice? How much is genes, how much is how our parents fed us? Clearly they are people who could easily eat less and lose weight, but recent research says for a lot of people there may not much be choice involved - at least not the way the reasonable person understands 'choice'

Kinda beat me to it. I generally agree with Melody here, although in a lot of these case it isn't a 100% choice thing. With obesity, although many cases stem from personal choices, that can be a bit of a grey area that can be impacted on ability to access healthy foods (in terms of access to grocery stores or financially having the means to steer clear of fast food or highly processed foods),  genetics, medical conditions (such as hypothyroidism), etc. 

I'm not even sure that smoking is 100% a choice.... like, it would have been the first time you did it, but addiction is pretty hard to overcome and not a light switch that can be easily turned off.

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28 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

and even 'obvious' situations like obesity - how much is choice? How much is genes, how much is how our parents fed us when our personal biochemistry was being imprinted? Clearly there are people who could easily eat less and lose weight, but recent research says for a lot of people there may not be much choice involved - at least not the way a reasonable person understands 'choice'

I thought of that.  By the like, being incarcerated isn't proof of guilt of anything.   I was just throwing it out there as an example of choices which impact health and risk.  But at the end of the day, it benefits the rest of us if there are hospital beds available for those  that don't smoke, don't overeat, have managed not to get arrested for anything, etc. yet not qualified yet for the vaccine.

My son (upper 30s) got his on obesity but isn't what I would call obese.  He barely slid over the BMI cutoff and is just a big guy and muscular (lifts weights).  In fact, he was fully vaccinated before my husband, mother or I got our first shots.  But he has worked in the public as "essential," for the entire pandemic.  I am not at all judging those who use the rules as set to get vaccinated.  It helps all of us.

 

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1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Kinda beat me to it. I generally agree with Melody here, although in a lot of these case it isn't a 100% choice thing. With obesity, although many cases stem from personal choices, that can be a bit of a grey area that can be impacted on ability to access healthy foods (in terms of access to grocery stores or financially having the means to steer clear of fast food or highly processed foods),  genetics, medical conditions (such as hypothyroidism), etc. 

I'm not even sure that smoking is 100% a choice.... like, it would have been the first time you did it, but addiction is pretty hard to overcome and not a light switch that can be easily turned off.

a lot things in life are just crap shoots. I always think of opiate addiction as the sort of the ultimate game of behavioral Russian Roulette. There is a segment of the population for whom it is signing their own death warrant the first time they shoot up - they will never overcome it, while other people just walk away from it when they are ready. Or in my family smoking is an interesting case stufy. On the distaff side of the family everyone smoked - some into their 90's, no-one got lung cancer though some had heart disease. On the paternal side every man who smoked died of lung cancer.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

and even 'obvious' situations like obesity - how much is choice? How much is genes, how much is how our parents fed us when our personal biochemistry was being imprinted? Clearly there are people who could easily eat less and lose weight, but recent research says for a lot of people there may not be much choice involved - at least not the way a reasonable person understands 'choice'

I know something like 40% are predisposed, but that does not mean they will end up over weight.  There is this scale with obesity, too many of us are obese and if we all did the correct things wrt eating habits and regular exercise the number will be WAAAAAY over on the other side.

The drug example....it is the reason I never tried any of it, I was too afraid of being that small % that would never be able to stop and I knew it would ruin my life if I did it.  

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45 minutes ago, pfife said:

Crushed a pack of pall malls so I can be eligible now

If you have ever smoked a cigar with the guys, that qualifies you as a smoker too.  Sadly not kidding or exaggerating.

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Gave up smoking over 45 years ago. Did it briefly because of a certain young lady. I’m sure there has to be some residual affect from all that imbedded tar and nicotine in radio control rooms during the 70s and 80s (not to mention decades before that judging by the walls)...before they banished smoking there.

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19 hours ago, mtutiger said:

30 makes more sense for me in terms of BMI (I know some folks who qualified that way), but I found out a couple of weeks ago that 25 counted in that particular county. It may be statewide for all I know, it's possible that number comes from Texas DSHS.

I kinda don't like availing myself of the vaccine in that way, not the least of which because BMI isn't a particularly good measure (as Chaz suggests with Jacque Jones qualifying as being overweight). But the end of the day, the more people get vaccinated, the less the virus mutates. So I signed up. 

Like I said, I qualified because of a compromised immune system. I had my doctors office email part of my medical records but the woman signing me in only wanted my ID and insurance card. When I tried to hand her proof of my qualifying condition, she just brushed it away, like she didn't care. So people could be jumping the line but as you said, getting needles into arms is the important thing.

The login of QAnon....the virus is fake and not really killing anyone.

But the vaccine is going to kill us all.

Do these people even listen to themselves?

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17 hours ago, Melody said:

I agree.  But then, so many of the increased risk categories  (e.g. obesity, incarceration) are also from personal choices.   

Really? People are going to prison because they want to? It was their choice? There was a study done of prison populations. A huge percentage of them also had mental illness issues. 

This is the stigma mental illness faces. Being dependent on drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) is often a mental illness and not a "choice". As for obesity, it too can be a mental illness (eating disorders). So it's best not to judge with preconceived ideas. 

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1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Like I said, I qualified because of a compromised immune system. I had my doctors office email part of my medical records but the woman signing me in only wanted my ID and insurance card. When I tried to hand her proof of my qualifying condition, she just brushed it away, like she didn't care. So people could be jumping the line but as you said, getting needles into arms is the important thing.

The login of QAnon....the virus is fake and not really killing anyone.

But the vaccine is going to kill us all.

Do these people even listen to themselves?

I think the validation at that point just slows things down.  The people working the clinic just assume that's all been taken care of by the registration process.  

When I volunteered, the first day was back when it was first responders and health care workers.  I'm not even sure they had a validation process other than you writing down on the form where you worked.  As I watched the people come through, my job was post vax monitoring as they sat in their cars and waited 15 min, I was getting judgemental.  Saw a car full of young ladies who looked like college kids, all taking selfies and doing tik tok videos after their shot.  I saw one lady who I was pretty sure was the wife of an officer, he probably told her where to go. But speed was important I guess.  The people were specifically referred there, it wasn't a published event, but I don't see how anyone couldn't have gotten in the line and just put down "Dr. Jones" or something like that on the form.    The second day I volunteered was in theory all the people from the first day so they were turning people away if they weren't there for their second shot.     Anybody for the first shot had to go somewhere else.  A few complained but were told it screws up the process because they keep track of who needs 2nd doses.  

 

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2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Really? People are going to prison because they want to? It was their choice? There was a study done of prison populations. A huge percentage of them also had mental illness issues. 

This is the stigma mental illness faces. Being dependent on drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) is often a mental illness and not a "choice". As for obesity, it too can be a mental illness (eating disorders). So it's best not to judge with preconceived ideas. 

Of course they have mental issues, they are in jail.  Even if you did not have them going in, being IN one probably starts to gnaw away at your sanity.  Real life is not Shawshank with a bunch of Andys running around.

It is easy to blame everything on a mental illness and say you had no choice in the matter, but you do.  Drinking, smoking and eating too much.  And not all of this is preconceived notions, it is facts.  I think the majority of rational thinkers understand there is a subset of people who have some form of illness that creates problems (we ALL face mental illness of some kind or the other and to different degrees IMO) that make it extremely difficult to pull out of, but this blanket mentality that it fits everyone is dangerous.

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6 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Of course they have mental issues, they are in jail.  Even if you did not have them going in, being IN one probably starts to gnaw away at your sanity.  Real life is not Shawshank with a bunch of Andys running around.

It is easy to blame everything on a mental illness and say you had no choice in the matter, but you do.  Drinking, smoking and eating too much.  And not all of this is preconceived notions, it is facts.  I think the majority of rational thinkers understand there is a subset of people who have some form of illness that creates problems (we ALL face mental illness of some kind or the other and to different degrees IMO) that make it extremely difficult to pull out of, but this blanket mentality that it fits everyone is dangerous.

I don't get the impression that Sports_Freak is applying this to everyone.

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1 minute ago, John_Brian_K said:

Of course they have mental issues, they are in jail.  Even if you did not have them going in, being IN one probably starts to gnaw away at your sanity.  Real life is not Shawshank with a bunch of Andys running around.

It is easy to blame everything on a mental illness and say you had no choice in the matter, but you do.  Drinking, smoking and eating too much.  And not all of this is preconceived notions, it is facts.  I think the majority of rational thinkers understand there is a subset of people who have some form of illness that creates problems (we ALL face mental illness of some kind or the other and to different degrees IMO) that make it extremely difficult to pull out of, but this blanket mentality that it fits everyone is dangerous.

Prisoners in prison get there because of mental illness, not become mentally ill once they are in prison. It was once they closed down so macy facilities that housed and treated these people that it got so bad. They were just dumped into the street.

But I do agree that many of these issues are a cop out. People making excuses for their weak self control. Or blaming society for their problems. And society accepting that there's excuses for people who can't control themselves. We just recently saw it, a sheriff telling the entire country that a mass shooter was "just having a bad day" after he shot and killed several people. /s

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