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Directions and Objectives For A Future Mainstream Party

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25 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I hate the wokeness but I would rather be woke than corrupt. 

For what it's worth, I don't know that voting for every R downballot, particularly if the downballot Dems are moderate or mainstream, is the correct way to be a check on Dem excesses.

But that was a phenomena that occurred in this election, and one hopes the party adjusts accordingly.

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Seems like an easy choice to me. Do I want to vote for the party with 18 state attorneys general and over 60% of congress suing to overturn the will of the people, or the woke party that wants to tear down any statue that offends them? I'm signing up for some statue destruction. 

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15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Seems like an easy choice to me. Do I want to vote for the party with 18 state attorneys general and over 60% of congress suing to overturn the will of the people, or the woke party that wants to tear down any statue that offends them? I'm signing up for some statue destruction. 

right. Maybe some people care, but to me if they name the high school after Malcolm X and put up a firken statue of Mao at Hart Plaza ( I ignore it just like I always ignored the ones of old white dudes) , or even if I am asked to call he/she "them", I don't give a flying F if I get policy that moves the damn country forward. The former doesn't change our lives, the latter does.

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57 minutes ago, chasfh said:

lol the idea that the biggest problem in politics today is dem excesses

nobody said that.  were just having a conversation about the democrats at the moment.

if there is one "biggest" problem in politics its the erosion of trust in institutions of government.  i think that problem comes from the actions of republicans (but not exclusively republicans) over the last 40 years along with our goofy federalist set up.

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I hate the wokeness but I would rather be woke than corrupt. 

i invite you to come to chicago so you can discover that those two things are not mutually exclusive.

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30 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

right. Maybe some people care, but to me if they name the high school after Malcolm X and put up a firken statue of Mao at Hart Plaza ( I ignore it just like I always ignored the ones of old white dudes) , or even if I am asked to call he/she "them", I don't give a flying F if I get policy that moves the damn country forward. The former doesn't change our lives, the latter does.

g2 does not give a flying F about proper grammar.  duly noted.  :)

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37 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

right. Maybe some people care, but to me if they name the high school after Malcolm X and put up a firken statue of Mao at Hart Plaza ( I ignore it just like I always ignored the ones of old white dudes) , or even if I am asked to call he/she "them", I don't give a flying F if I get policy that moves the damn country forward. The former doesn't change our lives, the latter does.

I actually agree with this 100%.

Which is why it is frustrating to see people keep doing dumb stuff like renaming things named after people like Lincoln, Grant, even Dianne firken Feinstein, because it ultimately distracts from policy that moves the country forward 

I hate this term because of how often it is used and misused, but it's a big exercise in virtue signalling that doesn't accomplish anything except riling up conservatives 

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

nobody said that.  were just having a conversation about the democrats at the moment.

if there is one "biggest" problem in politics its the erosion of trust in institutions of government.  i think that problem comes from the actions of republicans (but not exclusively republicans) over the last 40 years along with our goofy federalist set up.

Did you read Schultz's piece? His thesis is trust but of course all that really means is 'truth' because it is truth that is the precondition to trust. I don't know how we start to do it again, but the public has to decide to start punishing people who lie at the ballot box, instead embracing them for their tribalism!  Right now we can't get there because too much truth is too challenging too many people's world view.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

i invite you to come to chicago so you can discover that those two things are not mutually exclusive.

But aren’t the two people in Chicago actually moderate Democrats? Actually Mayor. Daley Sr would be closer to today’s GOP than the Democratic Party

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8 minutes ago, CMRivdog said:

But aren’t the two people in Chicago actually moderate Democrats? Actually Mayor. Daley Sr would be closer to today’s GOP than the Democratic Party

there are hundreds of politicians in chicago and cook county.  if it were only the mayor, that would be one thing.  we have 50+ alderman and a county apparatus too.  lest we forget our loveable most woke state's attorney who did a nice favor for jessie smollet a little while ago.  you may have heard of it.  you probably didnt hear that after she was elected - but before being sworn in - she got a nice $30k a month gig "consulting" for a big plaintiff's firm, one who sues the city and county all the time.  what was she doing for them?  who knows?

or you may have heard of loveable progressive us representative chuy garcia.  he was an unknown county commissioner until he was plucked from obscurity by the teachers union to run against rahm 5 years ago.  his kid was arrested because he's in the latin kings.  guess who was his defense counsel?  Mayer Brown, the biggest law firm in the country.  how did mayer brown end up defending a latin kings street dealer?  well, they also have a hefty contract to do city and county legal work.  huh, wonder how they ended up defending chuy's kid?  i bet that cost him a lot of money..

you can find any number of our intrepid crusading alderman in criminal courts all the time.  all of them democrats.  many of them "progressive."  and if they arent in criminal courts, its because they havent been caught yet.

illinois as a state has more governmental bodies than any state in the union.  all with their hand out, giving out jobs and state and local pensions to buy votes.

lori was elected on a tide of anti government, anti chicago machine politics.  she ran against the "progressive" county president who proceeded to run attack ads in black neighborhoods against lori because lori is gay.  and then the "progressive" teachers union proceeded to sabotage lori every chance they get because she beat their chosen candidate.  you know them, the union that tweeted out that reopening schools is sexist, racist, and homophobic?  loveable bunch.

politics is politics.  dirty as **** no matter what trendy label they happen to gove themselves.

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our former progressive governor rod blagojevich was thrown in jail for trying to sell the senate seat to our CURRENT governor jb pritzker, who, after failing in his bid to buy the seat (notable progressive jesse jackson also tried to buy it for his son jesse jackson jr but that didnt work out when junior ended up in prison for stealing campaign money) went ahead and bought the governor's race by beating the LAST billionaire who was governor before him.

jb is now all about progressivism as he salivates over the prospect of dick durbin dying and taking his senate seat.

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Spent 10 years in the Chicago area 20 years ago. Know the stories, lived in Dupage Co. I have a friend currently serving on the County Board. 
Another friend who retired a few years ago from the Cook County Public Defender’s Office

 


 

 

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10 minutes ago, Buddha said:

our former progressive governor rod blagojevich was thrown in jail for trying to sell the senate seat to our CURRENT governor jb pritzker, who, after failing in his bid to buy the seat (notable progressive jesse jackson also tried to buy it for his son jesse jackson jr but that didnt work out when junior ended up in prison for stealing campaign money) went ahead and bought the governor's race by beating the LAST billionaire who was governor before him.

jb is now all about progressivism as he salivates over the prospect of dick durbin dying and taking his senate seat.

Imagine wanting to spend millions of dollars for the privilege of running the most mismanaged state the country.

(Yes, I know, the job comes with a lot of power... but still)

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35 minutes ago, Buddha said:

there are hundreds of politicians in chicago and cook county.  if it were only the mayor, that would be one thing.  we have 50+ alderman and a county apparatus too.  lest we forget our loveable most woke state's attorney who did a nice favor for jessie smollet a little while ago.  you may have heard of it.  you probably didnt hear that after she was elected - but before being sworn in - she got a nice $30k a month gig "consulting" for a big plaintiff's firm, one who sues the city and county all the time.  what was she doing for them?  who knows?

or you may have heard of loveable progressive us representative chuy garcia.  he was an unknown county commissioner until he was plucked from obscurity by the teachers union to run against rahm 5 years ago.  his kid was arrested because he's in the latin kings.  guess who was his defense counsel?  Mayer Brown, the biggest law firm in the country.  how did mayer brown end up defending a latin kings street dealer?  well, they also have a hefty contract to do city and county legal work.  huh, wonder how they ended up defending chuy's kid?  i bet that cost him a lot of money..

you can find any number of our intrepid crusading alderman in criminal courts all the time.  all of them democrats.  many of them "progressive."  and if they arent in criminal courts, its because they havent been caught yet.

illinois as a state has more governmental bodies than any state in the union.  all with their hand out, giving out jobs and state and local pensions to buy votes.

lori was elected on a tide of anti government, anti chicago machine politics.  she ran against the "progressive" county president who proceeded to run attack ads in black neighborhoods against lori because lori is gay.  and then the "progressive" teachers union proceeded to sabotage lori every chance they get because she beat their chosen candidate.  you know them, the union that tweeted out that reopening schools is sexist, racist, and homophobic?  loveable bunch.

politics is politics.  dirty as **** no matter what trendy label they happen to gove themselves.

You forgot about George Ryan and Dan Walker before him. Then there was Dan Rostenkowski and Mel Reynolds and let’s not forget Dennis Hastert. It seems that Illinois corruption knows no political party.

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I'm actually surprised the Republicans didn't put more effort in painting Obama as a Chicago politician. They seemed more interested in the birther movement and painting him as a Muslim. 

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On 12/15/2020 at 9:53 AM, chasfh said:

I agree that most red hats won’t go out into the streets of big cities like this.

The red hats are as uncomfortable in the big cities as rioters are in the suburbs.  

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46 minutes ago, CMRivdog said:

You forgot about George Ryan and Dan Walker before him. Then there was Dan Rostenkowski and Mel Reynolds and let’s not forget Dennis Hastert. It seems that Illinois corruption knows no political party.

if you can find a republican office holder in cook county, let me know.  and my point wasnt that republicans arent corrupt, its that progressives democrats can be just as corrupt as anyone else whether or not they are "woke".

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26 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm actually surprised the Republicans didn't put more effort in painting Obama as a Chicago politician. They seemed more interested in the birther movement and painting him as a Muslim. 

they tried hard to paint him as bill ayers' disciple.

it just didnt stick because obama is such a charismatic guy.

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and the first time obama ran for office he tried to take on the machine and got his *** handed to him by bobby rush, who is also corrupt as **** and a real POS.

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16 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if you can find a republican office holder in cook county, let me know.  and my point wasnt that republicans arent corrupt, its that progressives democrats can be just as corrupt as anyone else whether or not they are "woke".

Venal corruption is bad, but of the 100 and whatever GOP reps that signed onto the Texas action I would guess many, most, maybe all of them are not monetarily, venally corrupt, but they are all some combination of ethically corrupt or intellectually twisted or neurotically detached from reality or whatever term one likes to apply to people merrily violating the spirit and letter of their oaths of office. IMHO, the former are no more a danger to the republic than the latter.

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1 hour ago, CMRivdog said:

You forgot about George Ryan and Dan Walker before him. Then there was Dan Rostenkowski and Mel Reynolds and let’s not forget Dennis Hastert. It seems that Illinois corruption knows no political party.

Wasn't Dan Walker indicted after he left office?

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11 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Venal corruption is bad, but of the 100 and whatever GOP reps that signed onto the Texas action I would guess many, most, maybe all of them are not monetarily, venally corrupt, but they are all some combination of ethically corrupt or intellectually twisted or neurotically detached from reality or whatever term one likes to apply to people merrily violating the spirit and letter of their oaths of office. IMHO, the former are no more a danger to the republic than the latter.

Don't forget that our dumbass Attorney General who brought the suit has been indicted on state securities fraud charges and is reportedly being investigated by the Feds.

So, yeah. He could run with any Cook County Democrat in terms of corruption, on top of being (in your words) some combination of ethically corrupt or intellectually twisted or neurotically detached from reality or whatever term one likes to apply to people merrily violating the spirit and letter of their oaths of office. 

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1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Don't forget that our dumbass Attorney General who brought the suit has been indicted on state securities fraud charges and is reportedly being investigated by the Feds.

So, yeah. He could run with any Cook County Democrat in terms of corruption, on top of being (in your words) some combination of ethically corrupt or intellectually twisted or neurotically detached from reality or whatever term one likes to apply to people merrily violating the spirit and letter of their oaths of office. 

Because corruption is endemic in the system and not the exclusive purview of either political party.

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29 minutes ago, Buddha said:

Because corruption is endemic in the system and not the exclusive purview of either political party.

Pretty much.

My hypothesis is that it tends to be a lot worse in non-competitive or one party states... Illinois and Texas both qualify. Although Texas is getting more competitive statewide

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9 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Pretty much.

My hypothesis is that it tends to be a lot worse in non-competitive or one party states... Illinois and Texas both qualify. Although Texas is getting more competitive statewide

True.

Illinois can be competitive, but Cook County has been a one party banana republic for a long, long time.

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