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The Larry Nassar thing............


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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

What the **** is going on here?   I mean, seriously.   These championships and trophies and medals - they mean nothing now.  Who cares about your stupid games?     Not that I was totally into the Olympics to begin with, but I am not watching that garbage at all anymore.  Every level of it just stinks - just so corrupt.     Athletes doping or cheating,  bribes, sexual abuse, all of it,  it's just stupid and it's not worth it.   

And the NCAA focuses on not allowing cream cheese for bagels because then the bagel becomes a meal while "student" athletes at North Carolina had people with fake IDs take their tests and write their papers for them - and they do nothing and now finding out they probably knew about MSU. 

burn it down,  burn the whole thing down,  the NCAA is a disgrace.   this is pointless.   

Yeah, they do this crap for money,  how much money are they going to now payout in lawsuits?    

Outside the Nassar thing,  this stuff with Dantonio and Izzo - this probably goes on at almost every single campus, these coaches can't babysit 100 young adults all the time, but the cover ups.......none of this is worth it.  

 

The NCAA lost me way back with the Jamal Crawford episode at Michigan. Completely brainless, counterproductive, yes and at this point corrupt organization. Of course Jamal at least has had the last laugh in his own case, in the form of 18,000 pts in the NBA.

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Did anyone watch the e-60 about MSU that aired this morning?    I am sure it will be available On Demand if it isn't already.

 

If you did, anything surprise you?   What is the feeling you were left with about MSU,  Dantonio, Izzo and college athletics as a whole.

 

It's getting harder to be a fan of big time sports and I wonder if it's always been like this but stories were easy to control before cable & internet came along.    In the days of Bo & Woody & Muddy if a story came out there were only 3 local networks and a couple local papers to deal with and they could be threatened with being frozen out if they did something the overlords didn't like.  

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Yowza. That reporter killed it with the final question. Impossible to answer and keep your head held high. 

Yeah - Not a good look for Izzo. You'd have thought he would have anticipated and prepared for the inevitability of questions like these, but I guess these guys get so used to being able to control a usually captive sports press that they that end up caught unprepared.

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i know everyone wants them to come out and fall on their swords and kill themselves, but like edman said, theyre being sued.  any admission of guilt will be used against them.  best to just say you feel for the victims and are doing everything to cooperate.

they'll probably be deposed at some point.  dont want to make any statements until your lawyers have prepped you for a few days.

or you could be dantonio and call the reporters all liars.  but dantonio is and has always been a petulant *****.  about time everyone else found out about it too.

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This thread has appeared to morph from the Nassar scandal into an MSU thread. Maybe an edit to the title would be good. 

Anyway, one of the OTL journalists was on the 97.1 morning show today and said that since their report was released on Friday they have received additional calls from other victims. 

Izzo is in a really tough spot. The reports certainly make it sound like he wasn’t interested in holding anyone accountable and that his response was tailored to keeping his players or staff in good standing on the team. 

With his team being in the middle of the season, he’s going to be front and center and forced to continue offering no comment type responses that make him look really bad. 

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I've only followed this story from the stand point of Nasser and The gymnasts and the abuse and not from any MSU angle.... I read a thing today from NBC where you had trainers, doctors, gymnastic coaches, psychologists, police, prosecutors.... all either looked the other way, said they didn't think it was wrong, or just ignored it... 

so why is this on the football and basketball coach???   

This isn't a university culture thing.  It's a societal thing.  People hear things.... they don't want to get involved.  Or they are too trusting of experts who say it's normal.  NUmerous times in that article by NBC people sought advice of another professional who said it's not wrong.  

I'm not sticking up for Izzo or Dantonio but let's not turn this into something else by focusing on the wrong thing.  We as a society need to change how we digest claims of abuse.  It's easy to just point the finger at other people and assume you wouldn't react the same way.  How many times have we heard about abusers that they seemed like good guys?   Think about the person you know that is a good guy. Who is the one guy you'd say this would never happen to?  At work, church, school, whatever...  What if you heard a rumor about them?  How would you react?  How would you have reacted 12 months ago?   What you say about that great guy is what is often said about these creeps that do this.

I think going after Izzo and Dantonio is just grandstanding and not doing what really needs to be done.  

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38 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I've only followed this story from the stand point of Nasser and The gymnasts and the abuse and not from any MSU angle.... I read a thing today from NBC where you had trainers, doctors, gymnastic coaches, psychologists, police, prosecutors.... all either looked the other way, said they didn't think it was wrong, or just ignored it... 

so why is this on the football and basketball coach???   

This isn't a university culture thing.  It's a societal thing.  People hear things.... they don't want to get involved.  Or they are too trusting of experts who say it's normal.  NUmerous times in that article by NBC people sought advice of another professional who said it's not wrong.  

I'm not sticking up for Izzo or Dantonio but let's not turn this into something else by focusing on the wrong thing.  We as a society need to change how we digest claims of abuse.  It's easy to just point the finger at other people and assume you wouldn't react the same way.  How many times have we heard about abusers that they seemed like good guys?   Think about the person you know that is a good guy. Who is the one guy you'd say this would never happen to?  At work, church, school, whatever...  What if you heard a rumor about them?  How would you react?  How would you have reacted 12 months ago?   What you say about that great guy is what is often said about these creeps that do this.

I think going after Izzo and Dantonio is just grandstanding and not doing what really needs to be done.  

Purely from a sports perspective it is the same when people point the finger at the QB or the goalie or even the coach when the team losses.  It is lazy and it is easy which is why the internet is FULL of it....the internet starts it, MSM picks up on it and runs with it and before you know it we have a society like the SNL skit with Will Ferrel that just aired Saturday...they were at a dinner party with friends and everyone was afraid to talk about the issue because they were scared they were going to offend the other people...and the other people kept saying things like 'careful'...or 'watch it' etc.

The message is obvious IMO.

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29 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I've only followed this story from the stand point of Nasser and The gymnasts and the abuse and not from any MSU angle.... I read a thing today from NBC where you had trainers, doctors, gymnastic coaches, psychologists, police, prosecutors.... all either looked the other way, said they didn't think it was wrong, or just ignored it... 

so why is this on the football and basketball coach???   

This isn't a university culture thing.  It's a societal thing.  People hear things.... they don't want to get involved.  Or they are too trusting of experts who say it's normal.  NUmerous times in that article by NBC people sought advice of another professional who said it's not wrong.  

I'm not sticking up for Izzo or Dantonio but let's not turn this into something else by focusing on the wrong thing.  We as a society need to change how we digest claims of abuse.  It's easy to just point the finger at other people and assume you wouldn't react the same way.  How many times have we heard about abusers that they seemed like good guys?   Think about the person you know that is a good guy. Who is the one guy you'd say this would never happen to?  At work, church, school, whatever...  What if you heard a rumor about them?  How would you react?  How would you have reacted 12 months ago?   What you say about that great guy is what is often said about these creeps that do this.

I think going after Izzo and Dantonio is just grandstanding and not doing what really needs to be done.  

I think there are a couple different things going on here. The Nassar case and the way it was handled is one thing.

The sexual assault or other criminal behavior by athletes and the way their cases were handled is another. MSU has been in the crosshairs from ESPN going back years. On the one hand, there is the way criminal complaints are handled in general. In many cases, there isn’t enough hard evidence to prosecute. That applies to both athletes and non athletes. 

But in the case of athletes, they have an additional level of authority that they need to answer to, beyond just law enforcement. Coaches and the athletic department can hold players accountable. The reports seem to indicate that Izzo and Dantonio didn’t do that. Is MSU in particular being unfairly targeted because of Nassar relative to other schools that could have the same claims levied against them? Maybe. But that’s the cost of having been so negligent in their handling of the Nassar case and ending up in the news. 

 

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15 hours ago, Buddha said:

i know everyone wants them to come out and fall on their swords and kill themselves, but like edman said, theyre being sued.  any admission of guilt will be used against them.  best to just say you feel for the victims and are doing everything to cooperate.

 

A simple "of course" as an answer to the final "any regrets" question would have been in order.

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8 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I think there are a couple different things going on here. The Nassar case and the way it was handled is one thing.

The sexual assault or other criminal behavior by athletes and the way their cases were handled is another. MSU has been in the crosshairs from ESPN going back years. On the one hand, there is the way criminal complaints are handled in general. In many cases, there isn’t enough hard evidence to prosecute. That applies to both athletes and non athletes. 

But in the case of athletes, they have an additional level of authority that they need to answer to, beyond just law enforcement. Coaches and the athletic department can hold players accountable. The reports seem to indicate that Izzo and Dantonio didn’t do that. Is MSU in particular being unfairly targeted because of Nassar relative to other schools that could have the same claims levied against them? Maybe. But that’s the cost of having been so negligent in their handling of the Nassar case and ending up in the news. 

 

So it's 2 distinct stories and investigations being morphed into 1 with MSU being the common thread?

I get that but unfortunately i don't think society is capable of making that distinction.  They probably think Izzo and Nasser were buddies and that the football coach is supposed to know what some gymnastics doctor has going on.

 

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2 hours ago, Oblong said:

So it's 2 distinct stories and investigations being morphed into 1 with MSU being the common thread?

I get that but unfortunately i don't think society is capable of making that distinction.  They probably think Izzo and Nasser were buddies and that the football coach is supposed to know what some gymnastics doctor has going on.

 

Yeah, ESPN dropped the bomb on Friday naming names of athletes whose misdeeds were covered up and bungled by the university.

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2 hours ago, Oblong said:

So it's 2 distinct stories and investigations being morphed into 1 with MSU being the common thread?

I get that but unfortunately i don't think society is capable of making that distinction.  They probably think Izzo and Nasser were buddies and that the football coach is supposed to know what some gymnastics doctor has going on.

 

So izzo and dantonio shouldn't be held accountable?   Those questions by OTL to izzo after yesterday's game were very specific.  It appears a cover up accorded to benefit the program. Why should that be dismissed because society doesn't understand the cases are separate?  

And although the cases are separate, the common theme is MSU and their preferred method of dealing with assault victims: make it disappear or ignore it.  

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

I think there are a couple different things going on here. The Nassar case and the way it was handled is one thing.

The sexual assault or other criminal behavior by athletes and the way their cases were handled is another. MSU has been in the crosshairs from ESPN going back years. On the one hand, there is the way criminal complaints are handled in general. In many cases, there isn’t enough hard evidence to prosecute. That applies to both athletes and non athletes. 

But in the case of athletes, they have an additional level of authority that they need to answer to, beyond just law enforcement. Coaches and the athletic department can hold players accountable. The reports seem to indicate that Izzo and Dantonio didn’t do that. Is MSU in particular being unfairly targeted because of Nassar relative to other schools that could have the same claims levied against them? Maybe. But that’s the cost of having been so negligent in their handling of the Nassar case and ending up in the news. 

 

good post. The question is whether there is an institution wide pattern. I think that question is certainly fair game because we know it tends to be the way things really work.

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14 hours ago, T&P_Fan said:

So izzo and dantonio shouldn't be held accountable?   Those questions by OTL to izzo after yesterday's game were very specific.  It appears a cover up accorded to benefit the program. Why should that be dismissed because society doesn't understand the cases are separate?  

And although the cases are separate, the common theme is MSU and their preferred method of dealing with assault victims: make it disappear or ignore it.  

It's probably college athletics rather than MSU....

I'm sure if this happened at UM we'd see similar reactions like Valenti's from the other tribe.  I can hear it already.

 

 

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