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BECAUSE Not Caldwell, So Then Who?


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Really excited about the prospect of Patricia.   It's the right choice.  Even if it doesn't work out, I'm happy we are emulating another organizations success.

I think Quinn has done a nice job in his first two years.  Looking forward to another productive offseason and new coach.  No way the lions can be as unprepared to start games under patrica than Caldwell. 

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The Lions FO know he is talented and they are trying to freeze him from going to a rival until their new HC can decide if he wants him. It puts pressure on GB to hire someone else as if they wait to see if the Lions keep him and the Lions do, then GB might miss on their second choice. All I know is that I wouldn't appreciate being the pawn in that calculation.


Exactly. Good for the Lions front office.

You think if they hired or even interviewed Austin they wouldn’t ask him questions about personnel and scheme that would be relevant to two division games next year? Ha!

I don’t understand why a fan would ***** about his team not wanting to give a competitive advantage to its division rival. I’d rather beat the Packers, but whatever.
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The Lions FO know he is talented and they are trying to freeze him from going to a rival until their new HC can decide if he wants him. It puts pressure on GB to hire someone else as if they wait to see if the Lions keep him and the Lions do, then GB might miss on their second choice. All I know is that I wouldn't appreciate being the pawn in that calculation.


Maybe I’m looking at this thru my nearly 40 years in broadcasting, but this seems similar to a standard non compete clause.

He’s still under contract to the Lions and I assume he will still be paid by them.

If I’m reading the situation correctly they don’t want him to go to a division rival.

I’ve been there, it sucks, but its also the way of the world.
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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

 


Exactly. Good for the Lions front office.

You think if they hired or even interviewed Austin they wouldn’t ask him questions about personnel and scheme that would be relevant to two division games next year? Ha!

I don’t understand why a fan would ***** about his team not wanting to give a competitive advantage to its division rival. I’d rather beat the Packers, but whatever.

Well I've already argued that I don't accept your premise - there isn't much competitive advantage in hiring a coach that worked for an org that will have a whole new staff.

But that's not the fallout this affects, it's more about whether talented people see the Lions as an organization they are interested in working for. Every one in town seems to think the Lions are such a great gig. I don't see it - they have been one of the most unstable organizations for coaches for decades and the current ownership has a life expectancy measurable in single digits. I just don't think they need to do anything more to alienate potential hires .

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30 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Not sure how that effects what the lions are doing.  Those previous failures don't predict future success or failure. 

It's true many haven't been able to succeed by themselves without Belichick, but has there ever been a combo from the Pats as coach and GM anywhere? I'd think if you were attempting to mimic a model, these would be two key pieces you'd want in place. This could be a little different

 

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Well I've already argued that I don't accept your premise - there isn't much competitive advantage in hiring a coach that worked for an org that will have a whole new staff.
But that's not the fallout this affects, it's more about whether talented people see the Lions as an organization they are interested in working for. Every one in town seems to think the Lions are such a great gig. I don't see it - they have been one of the most unstable organizations for coaches for decades and the current ownership has a life expectancy measurable in single digits. I just don't think they need to do anything more to alienate potential hires .

They’re about to get the guy everybody is saying the best on the market, so I don’t think them not letting Austin interview with a division rival makes a bit of difference to anybody. There are just 32 teams, just 32 HC positions, DC positions, OC positions. Any given year there are a handful open - and hundreds of guys who want them. Not a single one would refuse to interview with a team because the team once didn’t let a coach interview for a lateral move with a division rival.
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1 hour ago, T&P_Fan said:

Not sure how that effects what the lions are doing.  Those previous failures don't predict future success or failure. 

It may mean the Patriots cannot be emulated. It may mean that the magic in New England is just Belichick and Brady. No one has succeeded outside of New England. 

52 minutes ago, number20 said:

It's true many haven't been able to succeed by themselves without Belichick, but has there ever been a combo from the Pats as coach and GM anywhere? I'd think if you were attempting to mimic a model, these would be two key pieces you'd want in place. This could be a little different

 

Pioli brought in Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crenel in Kansas City but with Todd Haley as coach. 

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I like the decision. Aside from Crennel (who seems to be like Marinelli in that they are great coordinators/assistants, not great head coaches) all the other Patriots assistants have been offensive guys who undoubtedly benefited from Brady, Patricia is doing some very solid things in NE without a "Brady" on his side of the ball. Now, obviously he still benefits by being ahead in most games, but I still think he has a better chance of success than some of the other NE hires.

I am MUCH more confident in him than Caldwell, by many accounts Caldwell was going to be fired in Baltimore right before we hired him anyways. I haven't heard a single negative from any Patriots fans/writers about Patricia when I don't think the same could ever be said about Caldwell.

Good hire. I'm excited, for the first time in the last 15+ years I think this team is on the right track.

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14 hours ago, T&P_Fan said:

Really excited about the prospect of Patricia.   It's the right choice.  Even if it doesn't work out, I'm happy we are emulating another organizations success.

I think Quinn has done a nice job in his first two years.  Looking forward to another productive offseason and new coach.  No way the lions can be as unprepared to start games under patrica than Caldwell. 

fast forward to the lions first game next year.  on the first play of the game they run up the middle for no gain.  tp immediately calls for patricia to be fired.

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53 minutes ago, Jason_R said:


For a demotion in role, back to DB coach but an increase in title, up to “Assistant Head Coach - Defensive Backs” so as to be able to interview him without the Lions’ permission.

What’s the rule for having to ask the lions for permission?

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What’s the rule for having to ask the lions for permission?

My understanding is that a coach under contract is free to interview with other teams if the position he is interviewing for is a promotion.

 

If the position would be a lateral move - like the Cincinnati interview which the Lions permitted, and the Green Bay move which they didn’t - the team which currently has the coach under contract must give permission for the interview.

 

A few years ago there was a trend of creating for position coaches the “Assistant Head Coach” title so as either to block other teams from poaching their own coaches or to help teams poach coaches for lateral-ish moves.

 

Edited for clarity.

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Amid Patriots Unrest, Speculation Swirling About Belichick To Lions

It was always assumed that Bill Belichick would end his coaching career with the Patriots and then stroll into the Hall of Fame.

And that’s probably still the case.

But an ESPN story published on Friday that describes a growing rift between Belichick, Tom Brady and Patriots owner Robert Kraft suggests that Belichick could walk away from the organization at the end of the season.

“[New England’s Week 17 win over the Jets] didn’t look like Belichick’s last regular-season game as the Patriots’ head coach, but several coaches and staffers later remarked to one another that it felt as if it could be,” according to the story.

That hypothetical has given birth to another: Belichick could become the next head coach of the Lions, with whom he had one of his first jobs in the NFL.

Why the Lions?

Well, they have a head coaching vacancy and the obvious connection to Belichick through general manager Bob Quinn. They also have one of the most appealing openings on the market: The quarterback is already in place and ownership is hands-off and committed to winning.

“They’re not that far away,” longtime Texans beat writer John McClain of the Houston Chronicle told 97.1 The Ticket.

“If you look around the league at a lot of jobs, people have asked me what I think is the best, and I’ve told them, ‘The Lions are the best,'” McClain added.

Per the ESPN story, Belichick’s deepest frustration stems from Kraft meddling with the team’s roster and interfering with Belichick’s duty as general manager. Kraft reportedly forced Belichick to trade away backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo earlier this season, namely to secure Tom Brady’s future in New England. This left Belichick “furious and demoralized, according to friends.”

(He had drafted Garoppolo out of Eastern Illinois in the second round of the 2014 draft and viewed him as Brady’s successor.)

Belichick has “always subscribed to the philosophy that it’s time to go once an owner gets involved in football decisions,” per the story. If the current dynamic in New England is “unsustainable,” as Belichick has apparently expressed to friends, Detroit would be a welcome change of pace.

Lions ownership has long stayed out of football decisions, and current owner Martha Ford is especially hands-off. She checks in with general manager Bob Quinn on a regular basis, but allows him full jurisdiction on matters of personnel.

(That much was clear in the team’s firing of Jim Caldwell.)

Belichick’s legacy is secured. Many consider him the greatest football coach of all time. But if he’s looking for a feather in his cap, it’d be bringing a championship — heck, even a division title — to the long-suffering Lions.

And if the rift between Kraft/Brady and Belichick is as deep as the ESPN story suggests, it’d also be a way for Belichick to prove neither of them are responsible for his success.

All that said, it’s highly unlikely Belichick leaves the Patriots after this season. Kraft is on record as saying he hopes the 65-year-old coaches into his 80s and the trio of Kraft, Belichick and Brady released a statement on Friday negating the story’s claim that their run is coming to a close:

“For the past 18 years, the three of us have enjoyed a very good and productive working relationship. In recent days, there have been multiple media reports that have speculated theories that are unsubstantiated, highly exaggerated or flat out inaccurate.

“The three of us share a common goal. We look forward to the enormous challenge of competing in the postseason and the opportunity to work together in the future, just as we have for the past 18 years. It is unfortunate that there is even a need for us to respond to these fallacies. As our actions have shown, we stand united.”

It bears mention that Belichick’s contract has never been made public. It could expire at the end of this season, it could extend through 2028. No one outside of the Patriots organization knows.

But if he’s signed beyond this season, he’ll likely only be eligible to leave via trade. And New England would want a king’s ransom in return.

The Lions may well hire a Patriots coach to fill their vacancy on the sideline — Matt Patricia is reportedly their leading candidate — but it almost certainly won’t be Belichick.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2018/01/05/amid-patriots-unrest-rumors-swirling-about-belichick-to-lions/

never going to happen

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Amid Patriots Unrest, Speculation Swirling About Belichick To Lions

It was always assumed that Bill Belichick would end his coaching career with the Patriots and then stroll into the Hall of Fame.

And that’s probably still the case.

But an ESPN story published on Friday that describes a growing rift between Belichick, Tom Brady and Patriots owner Robert Kraft suggests that Belichick could walk away from the organization at the end of the season.

“[New England’s Week 17 win over the Jets] didn’t look like Belichick’s last regular-season game as the Patriots’ head coach, but several coaches and staffers later remarked to one another that it felt as if it could be,” according to the story.

That hypothetical has given birth to another: Belichick could become the next head coach of the Lions, with whom he had one of his first jobs in the NFL.

Why the Lions?

Well, they have a head coaching vacancy and the obvious connection to Belichick through general manager Bob Quinn. They also have one of the most appealing openings on the market: The quarterback is already in place and ownership is hands-off and committed to winning.

“They’re not that far away,” longtime Texans beat writer John McClain of the Houston Chronicle told 97.1 The Ticket.

“If you look around the league at a lot of jobs, people have asked me what I think is the best, and I’ve told them, ‘The Lions are the best,'” McClain added.

Per the ESPN story, Belichick’s deepest frustration stems from Kraft meddling with the team’s roster and interfering with Belichick’s duty as general manager. Kraft reportedly forced Belichick to trade away backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo earlier this season, namely to secure Tom Brady’s future in New England. This left Belichick “furious and demoralized, according to friends.”

(He had drafted Garoppolo out of Eastern Illinois in the second round of the 2014 draft and viewed him as Brady’s successor.)

Belichick has “always subscribed to the philosophy that it’s time to go once an owner gets involved in football decisions,” per the story. If the current dynamic in New England is “unsustainable,” as Belichick has apparently expressed to friends, Detroit would be a welcome change of pace.

Lions ownership has long stayed out of football decisions, and current owner Martha Ford is especially hands-off. She checks in with general manager Bob Quinn on a regular basis, but allows him full jurisdiction on matters of personnel.

(That much was clear in the team’s firing of Jim Caldwell.)

Belichick’s legacy is secured. Many consider him the greatest football coach of all time. But if he’s looking for a feather in his cap, it’d be bringing a championship — heck, even a division title — to the long-suffering Lions.

And if the rift between Kraft/Brady and Belichick is as deep as the ESPN story suggests, it’d also be a way for Belichick to prove neither of them are responsible for his success.

All that said, it’s highly unlikely Belichick leaves the Patriots after this season. Kraft is on record as saying he hopes the 65-year-old coaches into his 80s and the trio of Kraft, Belichick and Brady released a statement on Friday negating the story’s claim that their run is coming to a close:

“For the past 18 years, the three of us have enjoyed a very good and productive working relationship. In recent days, there have been multiple media reports that have speculated theories that are unsubstantiated, highly exaggerated or flat out inaccurate.

“The three of us share a common goal. We look forward to the enormous challenge of competing in the postseason and the opportunity to work together in the future, just as we have for the past 18 years. It is unfortunate that there is even a need for us to respond to these fallacies. As our actions have shown, we stand united.”

It bears mention that Belichick’s contract has never been made public. It could expire at the end of this season, it could extend through 2028. No one outside of the Patriots organization knows.

But if he’s signed beyond this season, he’ll likely only be eligible to leave via trade. And New England would want a king’s ransom in return.

The Lions may well hire a Patriots coach to fill their vacancy on the sideline — Matt Patricia is reportedly their leading candidate — but it almost certainly won’t be Belichick.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2018/01/05/amid-patriots-unrest-rumors-swirling-about-belichick-to-lions/

never going to happen

 

The chance that it could happen is greater than zero. Which means Mrs. Ford should be on the phone to Mr. Kraft.

 

If Belichick wanted to be the last man standing in NE, and prove he could win without Brady, well, Brady just put that plan up in flames.

 

How else could Belichick prove he can win without Brady when Brady apparently has the owner’s ear, is apparently whispering that he wants to play five more seasons, and apparently brokered the trade of his heir apparent? By winning with a Lions franchise where he began his coaching career, a franchise that has never won before, which has a Super Bowl caliber QB, an owner who won’t meddle, and a GM whom Belichick has mentored.

 

Again, this is a less than one percent chance, but it is not a zero chance.

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