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Justin Verlander Traded to Astros


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7 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I believe the Verlander trade is more difficult for myself and others because he was home grown and the heart of the team. He was a leader. The fact that we lost the most respected player in the org and are still stuck with millions of dollars of dead wood contracts doesn't help either.

I hear ya but those things are ancillary. If you're mad about there being tons of dead money, they're clearly trying to rectify that.

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11 minutes ago, Vonlenska said:

it seems you have a problem with the business aspect of the game. It's an absolute necessary evil to have to trade Verlander. You know that. There is no success without pain. Most people who watch baseball never get to see their teams do as well as ours has the last 10 years. 

There is always a price. 

See that's just it. I don't think it IS necessary. Does it maybe make us a better team in 3 years than we would be if we just let JV stick around? Sure, it probably does. But I don't think it's necessary either. Draft well, develop the talent. I find it impossible to believe that picking up these 3 prospects was the difference in the 2020 team winning or not winning.

Again, it's not that I have a problem with the business aspect. I had no problems moving Price, Upton, Cespedes, etc. I get the business aspect of the game. I disagree that the business aspect or winning is always the primary concern for me, as a fan. JV is not just another player. He is the best player the Tigers have drafted in my lifetime. He is the best pitcher the Tigers have had in my lifetime. I expect those statements to remain true for a VERY long time. Watching him pitch has more value to me than a few wins in 2020, and I think a well run organization could build a future winner while still letting me watch him pitch in the meantime.

 

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Just now, hammb said:

See that's just it. I don't think it IS necessary. Does it maybe make us a better team in 3 years than we would be if we just let JV stick around? Sure, it probably does. But I don't think it's necessary either. Draft well, develop the talent. I find it impossible to believe that picking up these 3 prospects was the difference in the 2020 team winning or not winning.

Again, it's not that I have a problem with the business aspect. I had no problems moving Price, Upton, Cespedes, etc. I get the business aspect of the game. I disagree that the business aspect or winning is always the primary concern for me, as a fan. JV is not just another player. He is the best player the Tigers have drafted in my lifetime. He is the best pitcher the Tigers have had in my lifetime. I expect those statements to remain true for a VERY long time. Watching him pitch has more value to me than a few wins in 2020, and I think a well run organization could build a future winner while still letting me watch him pitch in the meantime.

 

Alright, sorry if I came off as condescending with the "business aspect" quote, haha. 

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8 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

You know, I take it back - about position players - they haven't really done much in developing pitchers either.  That's a myth.  For all these great power arms we hear about - what do they have to show for it............Verlander and Porcello - and they really didn't even spend much time developing them in the system - they were both in the majors quickly.   Where are all these other great pitchers we always hear about?   Andrew Miller developed elsewhere.   The Tigers didn't develop Fulmer or Scherzer they were pretty much MLB ready.    This team really hasn't developed much of anything since the early 80s.     That's why none of these trades make me happy.  These guys all seem to be at least 2 years away - and the Tigers will probably wreck them by then.   I am very angry right now.    Dombrowski would have robbed Houston blind.  

lol, no way we get more than this if DD is in charge. We maxed JV's value out, no question.

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2 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

The "reliever stats" are misleading. Houston has a stupid development programs where their starters each go 4 inninngs the same day in the minors. So two starters pitch in the same game.

Ahh thank you. I bet this broke B-R's stats or something. Good to hear. I was terrified the centerpiece of this trade had already become a "future late inning reliever"

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Big fan of tearing everything down, seeing as this team had a golden opportunity to win a weak division and didn't even sniff it.  Add in the contract situations, this was a no brainer.

I am completely resigned to the fact that AA, and young buck Chris are not the right people for the job, and agree that we will be irrelevant for a stretch that will rival 1990-2005. 

God help us all.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, hammb said:

See that's just it. I don't think it IS necessary. Does it maybe make us a better team in 3 years than we would be if we just let JV stick around? Sure, it probably does. But I don't think it's necessary either. Draft well, develop the talent. I find it impossible to believe that picking up these 3 prospects was the difference in the 2020 team winning or not winning.

Again, it's not that I have a problem with the business aspect. I had no problems moving Price, Upton, Cespedes, etc. I get the business aspect of the game. I disagree that the business aspect or winning is always the primary concern for me, as a fan. JV is not just another player. He is the best player the Tigers have drafted in my lifetime. He is the best pitcher the Tigers have had in my lifetime. I expect those statements to remain true for a VERY long time. Watching him pitch has more value to me than a few wins in 2020, and I think a well run organization could build a future winner while still letting me watch him pitch in the meantime.

 

I get it.  I really do.  But my point earlier WRT Jim Palmer is relevant.  Guys don't stay with their teams their whole career anymore, especially pitchers.  I can't think of a pitcher of his caliber that's done that since Palmer.  Kershaw might.

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2 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I get it.  I really do.  But my point earlier WRT Jim Palmer is relevant.  Guys don't stay with their teams their whole career anymore, especially pitchers.  I can't think of a pitcher of his caliber that's done that since Palmer.  Kershaw might.

Bumgarner might also but as you point out, long shot.

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1 hour ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Quintana is what 10 years youngers and on a much better deal.

and not nearly as good.

and if its one team that doesnt have to worry about payroll in the next two years its the cubs.

if that deal was offered to the tigers for verlander and we turned it down and then took this deal- thats a mistake.

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I don't care if Zombie Hitler buys the team as long as he spends money to win. Does anyone actually care about the owner? The Illitches might have had a secret sex dungeon and donated the proceeds from said sex dungeon to a super PAC that wants to ban college football and also kick me in the balls and I wouldn't care if it got us a world series

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Verlander is one of the few I think might be in the Nolan Ryan category, actually.

Exactly. If there is anyone in MLB today who profiles like Nolan Ryan it's Verlander. The guy is still throwing upper 90s after 90-100 pitches at age 34. I bet he remains effective for the next 6 years or so.

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