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Sydney_Fife

2016 Offseason

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7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I think we can contend without JD, it's just that our margin for error would be that much smaller.

He missed 2 months this year and we still contended.  That was despite giving a bunch of starts to Pelfrey, Greene, Sanchez and a hurt Zimmermann.  Replacing those stats with a full season of Fulmer, Norris and Boyd should offset the loss of JD.   

and hopefully the plan wouldn't be to replace him with a zero win player. 

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17 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

I've seen many worse pitchers than Anibal get more than 1/6

I still tend to believe Sanchez could be a more effective reliever than Pelfrey. He has better stuff, he just can't sustain it long enough to be a starter anymore. Well, hopefully those conversations are going to be had.

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8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Sanchez lost 4 games in May before they pulled him from the rotation. Lowe lost two before they pulled him from his 'role'. That's the difference between 11-17 and 17-11. Sanchez had been signaling in 48 pt font all last year that he was trouble-esp with a manager that wouldn't pull him early. They should have known just looking at the radar gun Lowe had no business working games in doubt until he had proved he was capable. I think the Tigers were way too slow to act on both these guys when there was ample reason not to give either so much rope.

That's a lot of what AA is trying to fix this offseason, IMO. It's one thing to diagnose that someone is at the end of the rope. It's another thing to have someone able to replace them.

Sometimes it's easy to look at a team as 9 position players 5 starters maybe 3 relievers. But you always end up needing closer to your full 40 man roster than 17, especially in modern baseball.

Our top 17 isn't terrible, it's actually quite good, give our take a catcher and setup relievers. But the players beyond that 17 are terrible, quite frankly.

No 6th starter. No 7th starter. No 4th outfielder. No 5th outfielder. No backup catcher. Unproven relief pitching.

Outside of those 17, you at most you have a couple potentially decent relievers and a nice utility piece or two.

And so you're still gonna have to be lucky to make the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Luck = an owner that's probably spent hundreds of millions more than an average owner on payroll.

It's nice being an fan and just saying gib gib gib and your team's owner gibs gibs gibs but realistically that's not an attitude that can last unless your an annoying fan of the Red Sox, Yankees, etc.

You don't have to be a Red Sox or Yankees fan.  If a team spends its money wisely, they can keep most of their good players even if they are under the "salary cap".  The Tigers have a lot of bad contracts.  If that were not the case, they would probably be able to keep JD.  

What I was trying to say in the previous post is that from a fan's perspective, I would like to see them be able to pay a player like JD rather than give him up for prospects equaling one year of JD.  I think sabertooth is the only one here that will agree with this perspective, but that's OK.  I can see why people want to play GM.  Once they make a trade, I usually accept it and try to imagine how the players they get will turn out to be good but that is not my first instinct.    

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

two at the most isn't it?

No, it would be as many years as his contract lasts if the owner is willing and able to pay for it

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Just for fun, help me pick the Tigers 6th and 7th starting pitchers for 2017.  

I know if your going to save $$$, you probably want Sanchez and Pelfrey gone (makes sense).  But here is the kicker, aside from Verlander, Zimmerman, Fulmer, Boyd, Norris, Sanchez and Pelfrey, in 2016 Greene and Farmer were the only other two Tigers to get a start and that went Greene with 3 starts (1 win, 2 loses, 13.1 innings, 10ER's) and Farmer with one start (5 innings, 4ER).

Is anyone comfortable with mvoing Greene back as a starter or using Farmer, Weber, Saupold or maybe Crouse if one of the Tigers front 5 goes down?  .....OR,....do the Tigers keep one of Sanchez or Pelfrey for 2017....just in case?

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16 minutes ago, STLTiger69 said:

Just for fun, help me pick the Tigers 6th and 7th starting pitchers for 2017.  

I know if your going to save $$$, you probably want Sanchez and Pelfrey gone (makes sense).  But here is the kicker, aside from Verlander, Zimmerman, Fulmer, Boyd, Norris, Sanchez and Pelfrey, in 2016 Greene and Farmer were the only other two Tigers to get a start and that went Greene with 3 starts (1 win, 2 loses, 13.1 innings, 10ER's) and Farmer with one start (5 innings, 4ER).

Is anyone comfortable with mvoing Greene back as a starter or using Farmer, Weber, Saupold or maybe Crouse if one of the Tigers front 5 goes down?  .....OR,....do the Tigers keep one of Sanchez or Pelfrey for 2017....just in case?

Farmer and who knows but I would prefer Sanchez over Pelfrey since we know Pelfry stinks and Sanchez has done well in the past. Having said that I hope they find a Taker for both with "some" asset return.

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21 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

You don't have to be a Red Sox or Yankees fan.  If a team spends its money wisely, they can keep most of their good players even if they are under the "salary cap".  The Tigers have a lot of bad contracts.  If that were not the case, they would probably be able to keep JD.  

What I was trying to say in the previous post is that from a fan's perspective, I would like to see them be able to pay a player like JD rather than give him up for prospects equaling one year of JD.  I think sabertooth is the only one here that will agree with this perspective, but that's OK.  I can see why people want to play GM.  Once they make a trade, I usually accept it and try to imagine how the players they get will turn out to be good but that is not my first instinct.    

Giving JD 6 years $138M would not be spending wisely.

And they're not going to trade him because they can't afford his $12M salary.

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19 minutes ago, STLTiger69 said:

Just for fun, help me pick the Tigers 6th and 7th starting pitchers for 2017.  

I know if your going to save $$$, you probably want Sanchez and Pelfrey gone (makes sense).  But here is the kicker, aside from Verlander, Zimmerman, Fulmer, Boyd, Norris, Sanchez and Pelfrey, in 2016 Greene and Farmer were the only other two Tigers to get a start and that went Greene with 3 starts (1 win, 2 loses, 13.1 innings, 10ER's) and Farmer with one start (5 innings, 4ER).

Is anyone comfortable with mvoing Greene back as a starter or using Farmer, Weber, Saupold or maybe Crouse if one of the Tigers front 5 goes down?  .....OR,....do the Tigers keep one of Sanchez or Pelfrey for 2017....just in case?

It's probably Pelfrey (5.19 ERA as a starter) then Sanchez (6.04 ERA). :dead:

Greene should probably be successful for a whole season from the bullpen before we think about making him a starter.

Note that Boyd, for all we need him, had a 4.81 ERA as a starter.

We're probably still 2 starters short.

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21 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

It's probably Pelfrey (5.19 ERA as a starter) then Sanchez (6.04 ERA). :dead:

Greene should probably be successful for a whole season from the bullpen before we think about making him a starter.

Note that Boyd, for all we need him, had a 4.81 ERA as a starter.

We're probably still 2 starters short.

seems unlikely to me Pelfrey and Sanchez both stay - but of course we'll see. Whichever one does stay comes out of the BP in the event you lose a starter - so call him starter #6. #7 is probably also  someone in the BP you stretch out at need - maybe Greene or Ryan, then you backfill the relief spot from Toledo - maybe Jimenez is ready at that point. It's  true the starting staff at Toledo are mostly AAA journeymen, but with Ryan and Greene plus possibly Sanchez or Pelfrey in the pen your spare starters are there, and it's the MiLB relievers you'll have to back fill with.

 

Also, Boyd came back after the ASB with a much harder slider/cutter and was a more effective pitcher. In his last 13 starts he only gave up more than 3 ER twice: he got lit up bad (7) in MN in Sept and then gave up 4 in his very last start.

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55 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

No, it would be as many years as his contract lasts if the owner is willing and able to pay for it

I guess I understand your premise but at this point signing JD beyond his present contract just seems completely off the table.

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11 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

seems unlikely to me Pelfrey and Sanchez both stay - but of course we'll see. Whichever one does stay comes out of the BP in the event you lose a starter - so call him starter #6. #7 is probably also a someone is the BP you stretch out at need - maybe Greene or Ryan, then you backfill the relief spot from Toledo - maybe Jimenez ready at that point. It's  true the starting staff at Toledo are mostly AAA journeymen, but with Ryan and Greene plus possibly Sanchez or Pelfrey in the pen your spare starters are there, and it's the MiLB relievers you'll have to back fill with.

It's an interesting call. Barring a new pitch from Pelfrey, I'd like to see him and Anibal be legit full time bullpen guys from the word go. That would leave you really thin in case of injury to the rotation and so would also of course require they sign a couple guys to start at Toledo and be ready for a call-up. They had that Donnie Roach guy for a couple weeks, it'd be someone like him or when they had Jose Alvarez. I would think Buck Farmer would be in that role again as well. Him and maybe Myles Jaye are the only two remote possibilities currently in the system that could be replacement level. And of course if they do make a big trade a guy could come from there as well.

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We have a few guys who have a decent shot at making the club next year. Jimenez, Alexander, Jones,Turnbull, and Stewart are all legit candidates.  2 Starters, a Closer, and a couple outfielders. So, if you dump whatever you can , maybe we will get lucky on prospects in return. Hopefully similar to Boyd, Fulmer... The most likely are JD and JV. That should fetch what, minimum 4 decent prospects?

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3 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I guess I understand your premise but at this point signing JD beyond his present contract just seems completely off the table.

I am giving my perspective as a fan,  They spent all that money last year and it didn't work out as planned.  Now, they are going to switch gears and trade a guy with a .900 OPS over the last three years.  I get why they have to consider trading him now, but getting into the situation seems like poor planning.

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A thought occurred to me this morning reading thru this thread.  I know it has been assumed (by many) that Avila's presser this week spelled the end of the big spending in Detroit, at least in part because Mr. I is aging & less involved & his family isn't as invested in baseball as dear old dad.  However, & this is just speculation, I wonder how often over the past few years that Mr. I has opened the checkbook & said "Sign him now" as a directive, not a suggestion.  Perhaps this week's news is evidence that Chris Illitch will allow Avila to make his own decisions more & interfere less.  Again .. pure speculation, but I'm looking for reason to hope here. :)

 

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16 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah I don't see Cleveland taking a step back like most saw with KC.  I think they are legit.  Maybe we could help close the gap by performing better against them in h2h games though. 

But the pitching isn't going to hold out all season.

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6 hours ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Note that Boyd, for all we need him, had a 4.81 ERA as a starter.

True.  He started out slowly and had that one abomination of a start in the last week or two of the season.  His second half, his July & August particularly, make me think there's something there to work with and be comfortable with penciling him in at the bottom of the rotation and perhaps getting mid rotation results.

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17 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

The Angels don't have much to offer, but if they would take him and salary, I would listen.

Mike Trout says hello.......................

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Sanchez to the bullpen because he has shown stuff for shorter durations makes sense to me.  I'm not sure that it will translate to him being a spare/spot starter anymore.  Ideally those 6th, 7th, 8th SPs are in the Toledo rotation and have at least two pitches and the stamina to get through a major league lineup for 5 innings without putting the team in a huge hole.  Are there any solid in house candidates for those roles?

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34 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Because the Angels would consider trading Trout for Sanchez.

Sanchez and a half dozen other useful players......................... :)

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