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2016 Offseason


Sydney_Fife
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1 hour ago, MDMAzing said:

JD should of been traded a year and a half ago like i wanted.  Now they have to settle for less, but will still get a solid return for him. 

I put Vmart out there to see if any AL team will give something decent for him.  If yes, then deal him.  Maybe BOS will take him back.

 

 

would DD trade Sandoval for Victor + Anibal?

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3 hours ago, Sydney_Fife said:

I think JD remains a prime trade candidate. They have to get something for him before he hits free agency. They also need to get more left handed hitting and speed in their lineup. 

I don't get why we have to trade JD. He makes $11.5 million next year so a raise to $20 million after isn't a OMG raise! Second the payroll is set to drop $70 million when JD hits free agency. Bye bye Sanchez, Lowe, Pelfry and possibly Upton and Kinsler. 

Third sure you can trade him but you got to make your team better not just cause trading him when we plan to be a competitive team seems silly. Last time we didn't trade Max, had a decent season then added Christian Stewart in the draft. Also, JD's class is L-O-A-D-E-D. So he could be left out of that $150 million or $200 million because teams are going to be looking to spend on Harper and Machado and not a 30 year OF. As a result you might be abel to get him on the "cheap" a deal of 6-$105.Doesn't seem out of the question. He gets paid a lot of money, he gets to stay in a place he seems to like, meanwhile Tigers save some bucks to spend elsewhere. 

And sure we could get those things you suggest, but the question is how in this terrible class. Unless you are looking at trading one of the young starters (which I do not want to do) I'm not sure your finding a better/faster/lefty option at CF, SS or 3rd because your pretty much locked in at the rest of the spots. 

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17 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

would DD trade Sandoval for Victor + Anibal?

Why the frick would we trade a guy who expires after 2018 (and isn't god awful) and a guy who expires after 2017 for a guy who's contract expires after 2019 and is the worst player in the deal? 

Of course Dave would do it. He'd do it and laugh heavily at Avila. 

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Yeah, it's hard to see a scenario where Maybin isn't back.  He produced over 3 WAR offensively for the price of just over 1--even despite the injuries.  We don't have anyone else to play CF.  And he fills a need for speed on the bases.

French's argument is that the team's payroll is high, so if we need to cut it somewhere, Maybin would be the easiest way.  But that's kind of foolish, especially after a season where we missed the playoffs by 2 games.  Because if we start subtracting wins from the roster in order to reduce a payroll from $200 million to $190 million, that just means you're wasting $190 million, not saving $10 million.

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4 minutes ago, TheCouga said:

Yeah, it's hard to see a scenario where Maybin isn't back.  He produced over 3 WAR offensively for the price of just over 1--even despite the injuries.  We don't have anyone else to play CF.  And he fills a need for speed on the bases.

French's argument is that the team's payroll is high, so if we need to cut it somewhere, Maybin would be the easiest way.  But that's kind of foolish, especially after a season where we missed the playoffs by 2 games.  Because if we start subtracting wins from the roster in order to reduce a payroll from $200 million to $190 million, that just means you're wasting $190 million, not saving $10 million.

Not to mention if you want to cut payroll in that position you still do use the club option and then trade him. There is no reason not to use his club option. 

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6 minutes ago, TheCouga said:

Yeah, it's hard to see a scenario where Maybin isn't back.  He produced over 3 WAR offensively for the price of just over 1--even despite the injuries.  We don't have anyone else to play CF.  And he fills a need for speed on the bases.

French's argument is that the team's payroll is high, so if we need to cut it somewhere, Maybin would be the easiest way.  But that's kind of foolish, especially after a season where we missed the playoffs by 2 games.  Because if we start subtracting wins from the roster in order to reduce a payroll from $200 million to $190 million, that just means you're wasting $190 million, not saving $10 million.

exactly. Now if you can find a guy to give us Maybin's offense who can also actually play CF well enough not to be a liability at COPA, then so long Cameron.

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I don't see a reason to trade JD this offseason, unless we use his spot to find a LH bat.  Better to go into next year and move him at the deadline if we're out of contention.  The extra Wild Card spot has created more contenders each season, which is why teams are netting larger trade returns at the deadline.  Or hold him and get a #1 draft pick.  Or re-sign him if Upton walks.  Better to be patient as we have many good options.

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J D doesn't need to get "more lefthanded".  His OPS against righthanders was .929 this year.  The fielding and the quickness may have dropped off but those are poor reasons to trade a guy who is one of the 10 best hitters in the league. 

Everybody here knows more about contracts than I do but Victor is done after 2018, that's only one year of overlap with a J D mega-deal.  And Upton might not even be here in 2018.  So I'm not worried about blowing the budget for 1 year in 2018 if it means keeping J D for 3 or 4 after that.

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Bright side, the young trio of Fulmer, Norris and Boyd look like they could be very good. Boyd surprised me the most this year. JV, Norris, Fulmer, Boyd, Zimm should be a pretty decent rotation next year. 

Another surprise has been Rondon. 1.59 ERA since July 26. He's looking like a very good setup man. Of course he's a reliever so he may completely suck next year. Need a lot more depth in the bp. 

Honestly, I'd look to trade Iggy before JD. They need JD. Iggy was fantastic defensively this year so you may be able to fool a team into thinking he's worth more than he really is. 

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4 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Bright side, the young trio of Fulmer, Norris and Boyd look like they could be very good. Boyd surprised me the most this year. JV, Norris, Fulmer, Boyd, Zimm should be a pretty decent rotation next year. 

Another surprise has been Rondon. 1.59 ERA since July 26. He's looking like a very good setup man. Of course he's a reliever so he may completely suck next year. Need a lot more depth in the bp. 

Honestly, I'd look to trade Iggy before JD. They need JD. Iggy was fantastic defensively this year so you may be able to fool a team into thinking he's worth more than he really is. 

I don't think there is any market for Iglesias.  I can't think of a team who would be interested--maybe the Mariners? If you can move him and get something in return, Machado would provide similar offense and defense.

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1 hour ago, Charles Liston said:

J D doesn't need to get "more lefthanded".  His OPS against righthanders was .929 this year.  The fielding and the quickness may have dropped off but those are poor reasons to trade a guy who is one of the 10 best hitters in the league. 

Everybody here knows more about contracts than I do but Victor is done after 2018, that's only one year of overlap with a J D mega-deal.  And Upton might not even be here in 2018.  So I'm not worried about blowing the budget for 1 year in 2018 if it means keeping J D for 3 or 4 after that.

JD's base running and defensive liabilities cancel out a chunk of his offensive value - he was a horrible fielder this year by everyone's metrics. I like JD as a player but you have to hard headed about how you can make your team better. The Tiger OF is really bad defensively, improving that improves their likely run differential next season just as much as spending the money on the good bat. They need to look at all three of this season's OF and figure how they can re-arrange things to where more balls are being caught in the OF. Whether it JD, or JUP, or Maybin or two or all three, they won't win next year either with -35 Rdrs in the OF.

Maybe the team knows something about JDs health that make them think he will field better next season, but he and Maybin were a bad pair out there. In Maybin's case the arm is so bad it is almost comic. He can be within 50 ft of 2B and he won't even bother trying to stop a runner at third from scoring on a sac fly. It's been painful to watch this season.

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1 hour ago, Charles Liston said:

J D doesn't need to get "more lefthanded".  His OPS against righthanders was .929 this year.  The fielding and the quickness may have dropped off but those are poor reasons to trade a guy who is one of the 10 best hitters in the league.

I agree.  He is one of those hitters whose offense overcomes other shortcomings.  They should try to trade Upton.  His strong finish makes his contract very tradeable.  

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

JD's base running and defensive liabilities cancel out a chunk of his offensive value - he was a horrible fielder this year by everyone's metrics. I like JD as a player but you have to hard headed about how you can make your team better. The Tiger OF is really bad defensively, improving that improves their likely run differential next season just as much as spending the money on the good bat. They need to look at all three of this season's OF and figure how they can re-arrange things to where more balls are being caught in the OF. Whether it JD, or JUP, or Maybin or two or all three, they can't go another season with -35 Rdrs in the OF.

Trade Upton, move Maybin to left (where he should be a plus defender) and find a CF who can play defense.  

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14 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Trade Upton, move Maybin to left (where he should be a plus defender) and find a CF who can play defense.  

That would be a good move for Maybin, since LF would be the best place for the noodle arm, but I'm sceptical Maybin's bat plays as a corner OF. Upton is already a net neutral defender and gives you a corner OF bat to go with it. Clearly the contract situation favors moving Upton, but from an 'on the field' perspective I don't think that is the best move.

To me it constantly goes back to the balance issue. The TIger FO under DD and then again this off season under AA haven't seemed to able to move the Tigers from a collection of individual statistics generators to a team that produces the run differentials on the field that the players project to as individuals. Each player seems to be added 'ad hoc' without much regard for how it's all going to go together either on the field or wrt contract conflicts/overlaps

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The TIger FO under DD and then again this off season under AA haven't seemed to able to move the Tigers from a collection of individual statistics generators to a team that produces the run differentials on the field that the players project to as individuals.

I think part of the problem has been Ilitch.  Every time he decides to get involved, he signs a one-dimensional player - Prince Fielder, Victor Martinez's second contract and Justin Upton.  

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6 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I think part of the problem has been Ilitch.  Every time he decides to get involved, he signs a one-dimensional player - Prince Fielder, Victor Martinez's second contract and Justin Upton.  

Yup - quite  possibly.

I'll also admit that one year ago today I don't think we thought JD would fall off a cliff defensively the way he has. I know you can't put too much stock in one year's numbers, but he has looked as bad as the numbers. Maybe the Tigers need to get him a speed/flexibility coach or something.

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6 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Victor Martinez's second contract 

It is interesting to me to see the recent commentary about trading him away.  It seems to me that, at the time, the majority of folks (not saying you in particular) had no issue with him getting 4 years.  I was adamantly against more than 2 but would concede a 3rd if needed.  Last season was pretty flukey for him.  But we're seeing him break down to the point that he's a singles or home run hitter.  Balls into the corner or up the gap are no longer easy doubles.  His legs are going to the point he can't run.  If he starts losing power soon as well, its going to be ugly.

Sometimes its better to walk away a season earlier rather than too late. It seemed like this was an easy one to do that with.

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I don't mind missing the officially playoffs. I think overall this was a good season. Obviously I would prefer that the team had won the World Series. But that still only happens to one team.

Being in contention for a playoff spot on the last day isn't all that different than losing the wild card game, or losing the ALDS for that matter.

Sure, the playoffs are a crapshoot, so getting in will give you a shot. But the final few games of the regular season are a crapshoot, too. We came out on the wrong end and the season is over.

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7 hours ago, Yoda said:

Honestly, I'd look to trade Iggy before JD. They need JD. Iggy was fantastic defensively this year so you may be able to fool a team into thinking he's worth more than he really is. 

Just turn things over to a Machado/Romine platoon at short?  Bring back Aybar?

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