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12 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

interesting idea.  Of course they should have done borings on the site before they put a high rise on it so either way......

Does it take longer than 40 years for a sinkhole to form? I really don't know. Seems like they could happen pretty quickly. 

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

Does it take longer than 40 years for a sinkhole to form? I really don't know. Seems like they could happen pretty quickly. 

As I understand it, big sinkholes are the result of a relatively small amount of surface erosion/dissolution collapsing the roof of a void that had already long been there. The short term action creates the opening to the hole, but the hole in main was already there some distance down. When you build a house or road you don't normally characterize the deep strata below your job site because it's expensive and the risk doesn't justify it. When you build a high rise in a limestone area I have to think that is a requirment. If it wasn't then there is your scandal. I know we have a CE on the forum that may know better.

here is a resource on type and prevalence of sinkholes in FL. The state admits they have no systematic survey system in place. Miami is in a low incidence area - but like Tracy Morgan says - would you settle for 'pretty sure'?

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/11100/f11165/f11165.htm

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21 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

this is a basic problem in the Windows world. MS has always taken the attitude that its their machine and you are the guest, so MS has always felt free to have windows reconfigure things on updates. I haven't noticed W10 is as bad in recent releases as it was initially but yeah - definitely an issue. I have gotten my configurations to where 80% of my work in Windows is done inside a virtual machine running under linux. If MS pulls any fast ones I just reload the previous instance until I figure it out. Greatly reduces stress when work needs to get done.

But never fear, this fall we get Windows 11. Windows 10 was of course trumpeted as 'the forever versions of Windows', but never mind.

I haven't had the issue on my SurfacePro at work, but several updates I've done on my personal laptop have caused all of my file names to go away.  Then I have to blindly navigate thru the start menu you find settings & uninstall the update. 

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6 hours ago, Yoda said:

Just saw that there are 51 ppl unaccounted for. Given that there are about 100 units destroyed, I thought it would be much higher. 

Now 99 unaccounted for. Not sure how that number goes up, but here we are. 

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159 missing. How does that number keep going up? In theory, everyone is unaccounted when it collapses, and then the number gradually goes down from there. Doesn't really make sense. 

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

That may be part of the problem... 

 

Turns out there some data on subsistence  for this particular bldg - just blind luck.

Quote

The Champlain Towers South building was recently found to have been sinking in the 1990s and may have continued to sink since then, according to Shimon Wdowinski, a professor at Florida International University’s department of earth and environment, who has studied the area.

Wdowinski co-wrote a paper published in April 2020 that said satellite imagery showed a 12-story condominium building in the eastern part of the Miami Beach area had sunk by about two millimeters per year between 1993 and 1999. Wdowinski said in an interview on Thursday that this was the Champlain Towers South building.

“I was shocked to see it collapsed,” Wdowinski said.

Land subsidence is a gradual settling or sudden sinking of the surface when material that supports it is displaced or removed, according to the U.S. Geological Survey. Erosion and the disappearance of groundwater are two of several factors that cause it.

Wdowinski, whose findings were first reported by USA Today, cautioned that it was not clear whether the subsidence he found was connected to the building’s collapse.

“It appears to be something very localized to one building, so I would think the problem was more likely to be related to the building itself,” he said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/06/25/rising-sea-levels-condo-collapse/

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I was just reading that exact article. I wonder if anyone else has any record on whether or not it continued to sink, or if it began to sink any faster. 2MM over 40 years is only about 3". 

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1 hour ago, CMRivdog said:

This report is fairly damning.

 

I have seen what happens with steel reinforced concrete members are not protected from water. I've seen exactly what is described here where water permeates micro-cracks/porosity to reach the steel rebar, which then corrodes releasing hydrogen gas, the pressure from which then causes more cracking and spalling of the concrete which allows in more moisture and off you go in a downward spiral until the reinforcing steel corrodes enough for the structural member to fail. I saw this in an underground addition done to one of our buildings (done in the 80's no less). As built, our underground viaduct had a water impermeable membrane above it to seal it, but that was not regularly maintained ( It could be damaged by people walking/gardening etc in the courtyard above the viaduct and cost several thousand to fix each time). I guess the building managers assumed that since the construction was "concrete" the water seal membrane was superfluous. But it turns out not so much. In practice - at least when used below grade - the material they used in our construction was not adequately water resistant. (Thankfully there is nothing above what we built to fall but the roof of the underground viaduct has been held up by "temporary" shoring for a number of years now while they debate/how if to rebuild it all). I'd always assumed this was just a "one-of"  quality control issue with the material used in our construction - if it's a more general  problem - Yikes.

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27 minutes ago, CMRivdog said:

To quote the late Glen Haege “Water always wins”

just speculating out into the future I can imagine the political controversy. Let's say the engineers say concrete buildings of this style construction (of which there are a ton in FL) can't be adequately inspected and at 50yrs out we can't insure the integrity of the rebar - will there be political will for someone to order buildings at risk to be closed before more of them fall down?

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Got some new neighbors like 6 months ago. I live in a pretty quiet neighborhood. They have a Pitt of some sort, seems pretty old. She's been fine but for the last week she's been barking NONSTOP. And is always outside. 

Part of the problem is these people are just renting and they seem like dickheads. I really don't care to start a war with them. But my issue is more with them for allowing that than it is with the dog.

I can't even sit outside at this point. Any advice? 

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9 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Got some new neighbors like 6 months ago. I live in a pretty quiet neighborhood. They have a Pitt of some sort, seems pretty old. She's been fine but for the last week she's been barking NONSTOP. And is always outside. 

Part of the problem is these people are just renting and they seem like dickheads. I really don't care to start a war with them. But my issue is more with them for allowing that than it is with the dog.

I can't even sit outside at this point. Any advice? 

Crush a 10mg Fluoxetine pill, dissolve and absorb into a large milkbone. Toss one to Fida each day to mellow her out.

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14 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

There are at least two more bldgs of the same type to the one that went down just up the block. If they were built by the same contractor I think I'd find somewhere else to sleep until they understand what happened.

Ha - just saw a report today that the people in the bldgs up the block are indeed trying to figure out what to do. So does condo insurance cover condemnation of your building?

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23 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Anyone in Metro Detroit with a flooded basement today? Mine flooded in Westland.

We had some seepage in two spots but that’s not unusual if I don’t stay on top of the gutters.  A pine tree causes havoc. 
 

some other areas in Dearborn got hit hard. Everyone wants to blame the city but 6 inches in 24 hours will overwhelm any sense municipality pre 1960.  We have built up too much and left no natural flood or drainage areas. Water has to go somewhere.  Especially in Dearborn being home to the Rouge River and the various creeks and branches.  Rainwater from SE Michigan makes its way here.  

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13 hours ago, Oblong said:

We had some seepage in two spots but that’s not unusual if I don’t stay on top of the gutters.  A pine tree causes havoc. 
 

some other areas in Dearborn got hit hard. Everyone wants to blame the city but 6 inches in 24 hours will overwhelm any sense municipality pre 1960.  We have built up too much and left no natural flood or drainage areas. Water has to go somewhere.  Especially in Dearborn being home to the Rouge River and the various creeks and branches.  Rainwater from SE Michigan makes its way here.  

That's really the problem with older communities. Few, if any, drainage and retention ponds were built pre-1980s homes and thus the water ends up in homes and basements, overwhelming the sewer systems and pumping stations.

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With regard to flooding in SE Michigan.....

For a solution is it possible to create a huge natural lake bed that overflow can be directed to?  Unfortunately a lot of dead space in the Delray area is being used up by the new Gordie Howe Bridge.  Water needs to go someplace.

Where I grew up the up the upper branch of the Ecorse creek was behind our house.  The block just south of us would always flood.  Seems like a relatively cheap alternative is to buy out these houses, plow a huge field, and let overflow go there.

 

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2 minutes ago, Oblong said:

With regard to flooding in SE Michigan.....

For a solution is it possible to create a huge natural lake bed that overflow can be directed to?  Unfortunately a lot of dead space in the Delray area is being used up by the new Gordie Howe Bridge.  Water needs to go someplace.

Where I grew up the up the upper branch of the Ecorse creek was behind our house.  The block just south of us would always flood.  Seems like a relatively cheap alternative is to buy out these houses, plow a huge field, and let overflow go there.

 

Fairlane mall is pretty empty these days. Lake Fairlane maybe?

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