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Who will be the 5th starter?

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my money is still on a healthy Greene. I don't see who they are going to sign with the remaining $$ who is likely to be better.

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my money is still on a healthy Greene. I don't see who they are going to sign with the remaining $$ who is likely to be better.

I think they are signing someone else. And keep in mind........with Sanchez' history, they are going to need a 6th starter. We'll be fortunate if we get more than 20 starts out of Anibal. If they knew Sanchez could give them 30 starts, then I think they don't sign anyone. So Greene, Fulmer, Ryan or Lobstein might still get to be the "5th" starter even if they sign someone.

I'd like to say giving Doug Fister a shot because they might be able to get him a bit low and short term, but I don't know what happened with him when he got traded. Something wasn't right with that whole thing, beyond just being a bad trade. Was it a Leyland thing? A Dombrowski thing?

I don't think Gallardo or Chen is out of the question. But Fister is interesting. Could they get a 1 year deal for about 15 million? Coming off a down year, I don't think he's done and Comerica can be a little bit of a cure for some pitchers.

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I think they are signing someone else. And keep in mind........with Sanchez' history, they are going to need a 6th starter. We'll be fortunate if we get more than 20 starts out of Anibal. If they knew Sanchez could give them 30 starts, then I think they don't sign anyone. So Greene, Fulmer, Ryan or Lobstein might still get to be the "5th" starter even if they sign someone.

I'd like to say giving Doug Fister a shot because they might be able to get him a bit low and short term, but I don't know what happened with him when he got traded. Something wasn't right with that whole thing, beyond just being a bad trade. Was it a Leyland thing? A Dombrowski thing?

I don't think Gallardo or Chen is out of the question. But Fister is interesting. Could they get a 1 year deal for about 15 million? Coming off a down year, I don't think he's done and Comerica can be a little bit of a cure for some pitchers.

Chanel Fielder happened

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I think they are signing someone else. And keep in mind........with Sanchez' history, they are going to need a 6th starter. We'll be fortunate if we get more than 20 starts out of Anibal. If they knew Sanchez could give them 30 starts, then I think they don't sign anyone. So Greene, Fulmer, Ryan or Lobstein might still get to be the "5th" starter even if they sign someone.

I'd like to say giving Doug Fister a shot because they might be able to get him a bit low and short term, but I don't know what happened with him when he got traded. Something wasn't right with that whole thing, beyond just being a bad trade. Was it a Leyland thing? A Dombrowski thing?

I don't think Gallardo or Chen is out of the question. But Fister is interesting. Could they get a 1 year deal for about 15 million? Coming off a down year, I don't think he's done and Comerica can be a little bit of a cure for some pitchers.

Sanchez has started 20+ games since and including the 2010 season.

Fister for 1 season @ $15M is an utterly horrible idea.

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I don't think Gallardo or Chen is out of the question. But Fister is interesting. Could they get a 1 year deal for about 15 million? Coming off a down year, I don't think he's done and Comerica can be a little bit of a cure for some pitchers.

That would feel like a gross overpay. We could probably sign someone with a lot less question marks for that kind of money.

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my money is still on a healthy Greene. I don't see who they are going to sign with the remaining $$ who is likely to be better.

I am trying to be relatively optimistic on Greene and haven't dismissed him, but I don't think you can reasonably say that we don't know who is likely to be better assuming we are willing to spend a reasonable amount of money on the spot (which I assume we are since Avila mentioned that we are going to add another SP). Greene as no track record of sustained success in the minors/majors outside of about 100 innings combined between 2014 and the first three starts of 2015. In fact, I would say it is likely we can find someone who is better, but it might be possible that Greene really is some form of that 2014 guy. But I wouldn't say that is likely.

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I am trying to be relatively optimistic on Greene and haven't dismissed him, but I don't think you can reasonably say that we don't know who is likely to be better assuming we are willing to spend a reasonable amount of money on the spot (which I assume we are since Avila mentioned that we are going to add another SP). Greene as no track record of sustained success in the minors/majors outside of about 100 innings combined between 2014 and the first three starts of 2015. In fact, I would say it is likely we can find someone who is better, but it might be possible that Greene really is some form of that 2014 guy. But I wouldn't say that is likely.

I agree with this. Greene is good to have but he's a big question mark. I am guessing they will bring in someone like Fister (who I doubt will cost close to $15 million) or Young, to be the fifth starter. However, they are probably going to need at least 7 starters to get through the season, so depth is important and Greene can provide that.

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In this morning's column, Olney writes that the Tigers are still in on SP, but with JZ, they are now in a position to let the market play out and see if any bargains develop. He said they still like Fister and others.

If Greene is on their OD roster, it'll probably be in the pen.

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I think they are signing someone else. And keep in mind........with Sanchez' history, ...

I agree they will sign someone, I'm just feeling like in the end that person will not be as good a pitcher as Greene, and it will end up just as you note - the pitcher who we sign will end up getting more starts due to injuries in the rotation than for having beaten Shane out of the rotation.

And it's not that I think Greene is that much of a can't miss to be any kind of all-star - I just doubt you are going to get much pitching value from the best estimates of what is left in the budget.

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I think we could go about filling this position one of three ways.

1. Internally. Greene, Fulmer, Boyd, Lobstein, Ryan or Farmer. I see this as unlikely, particularly given Avila's comments that we would be looking to add another SP. Further, this is the type of SP depth you need to be a competitive ball club that can endure injuries and the unforeseen. It's really been one of the Achilles heels under DD, the lack of depth.

2. Wait out the Free Agency period, and sign one of the last remaining SP available (presumably on a team friendly contract). Each year we see decent innings eaters who are stuck without a contract and sign for what seems to be under market contracts. With more FA starting pitching available than ever before, clearly there are going to be a couple of decent under market deals available come February. But these kind of pitchers will still require a long term commitment, and it remains unseen if the Tigers will want to have four SP's under long term contract. Particularly if they are convinced that Fulmer or Boyd can take the spot in a year or so. Therefore I would guess that it's probably unlikely we will go this route.

3. Stop Gap or Guy Looking to Rebuild Value on a ST deal. I think this is the most likely route, and we could likely get this done in the $7-10 million range (plus some incentives, maybe). A stop gap guy meaning someone like Simon, Pelfrey, Lewis, or Colon. Or a guy coming off injuries or a poor season and needing a 1-year deal to rebuild value like Fister, Beachy, Latos, Linecum, and Morrow. Or I guess to take it a step further, they could sign a couple of lottery ticket guys to minor league deals and let them compete. Guys like Masterson, Billingsley, Gee, Detweiler, and Cahill. That's never been DD's methodology, so I doubt Avila goes the lottery ticket route, but it's a possibility.

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15m for fister? I say we swoop in with 17 and call it an offseason.

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In this morning's column, Olney writes that the Tigers are still in on SP, but with JZ, they are now in a position to let the market play out and see if any bargains develop. He said they still like Fister and others.

If Greene is on their OD roster, it'll probably be in the pen.

AA is playing exactly like I would sitting here on my armchair. With multiple holes to fill at SP/RP, you can't sit patiently for risk of being boxed in late on. He moved quickly and got a closer and a #2 and was still able to do this at value. With only 1 hole at SP, he can now afford to wait.

I'd still like to see him move aggressively for 1 more bullpen piece, before looking for a bargain or two there as well.

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I believe in Greene. Greene had made my fortune. And I raised my daughter in the Shane Green fashion. I gave her freedo.............wait, wrong speech.

I think Shane Greene has a lot of potential. I think to peg last year as an boom or bust is unfair because he has such an unusual injury. We simply don't know how his recovery is going to go. Jeremy Bonderman had something similar and he was never quite the same. But JB never developed that third pitch. The fact that Shane Greene does not have to rely on a power arm is a bonus and honestly, how good can your command be when your fingers are numb. If that gets corrected, he could be a solid No. 6 starter. But right now you can't count on him as No 5. I like Matt Boyd, but see him as a bullpen/spot start guy. I really don't see that every 5th day guy in the system right now. I like Fulmer's potential, but we are so far away.............

Ian Kennedy? Gallardo? Pelfrey? Leake?

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Norris or Greene, however the 4th starter will be Kenta Maeda

Have the Carp officially posted him?

I don't see the Tigers spending money just for the right to negotiate with a bottom of the rotation inning-chewer like Maeda. There are enough of those guys they can negotiate with for free.

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I think we could go about filling this position one of three ways.

1. Internally. Greene, Fulmer, Boyd, Lobstein, Ryan or Farmer. I see this as unlikely, particularly given Avila's comments that we would be looking to add another SP. Further, this is the type of SP depth you need to be a competitive ball club that can endure injuries and the unforeseen. It's really been one of the Achilles heels under DD, the lack of depth.

2. Wait out the Free Agency period, and sign one of the last remaining SP available (presumably on a team friendly contract). Each year we see decent innings eaters who are stuck without a contract and sign for what seems to be under market contracts. With more FA starting pitching available than ever before, clearly there are going to be a couple of decent under market deals available come February. But these kind of pitchers will still require a long term commitment, and it remains unseen if the Tigers will want to have four SP's under long term contract. Particularly if they are convinced that Fulmer or Boyd can take the spot in a year or so. Therefore I would guess that it's probably unlikely we will go this route.

3. Stop Gap or Guy Looking to Rebuild Value on a ST deal. I think this is the most likely route, and we could likely get this done in the $7-10 million range (plus some incentives, maybe). A stop gap guy meaning someone like Simon, Pelfrey, Lewis, or Colon. Or a guy coming off injuries or a poor season and needing a 1-year deal to rebuild value like Fister, Beachy, Latos, Linecum, and Morrow. Or I guess to take it a step further, they could sign a couple of lottery ticket guys to minor league deals and let them compete. Guys like Masterson, Billingsley, Gee, Detweiler, and Cahill. That's never been DD's methodology, so I doubt Avila goes the lottery ticket route, but it's a possibility.

I think the youngsters in list 1 are headed for the minors. Greene is a tough call because its just a weird circumstance. I don't want to count him out, but I don't want him to be counted upon, if that makes any sense.

There are a few older pitchers and/or reclamation projects that are interesting. Buehrle, Colon, and Young interest me among the older set. Young is supposedly in talks with Kansas City. We kicked Buerhle around earlier, not sure what his status is. Both he and Colon could go for a pretty penny or be an absolute bargain. Tough to tell as they put up good numbers last season but had limited playoff time.

Masterson intrigues me, but it looks like Pittsburgh has been in touch with him. Just watch, he'll turn it around there.

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I believe in Greene. Greene had made my fortune. And I raised my daughter in the Shane Green fashion. I gave her freedo.............wait, wrong speech.

I think Shane Greene has a lot of potential. I think to peg last year as an boom or bust is unfair because he has such an unusual injury. We simply don't know how his recovery is going to go. Jeremy Bonderman had something similar and he was never quite the same. But JB never developed that third pitch. The fact that Shane Greene does not have to rely on a power arm is a bonus and honestly, how good can your command be when your fingers are numb. If that gets corrected, he could be a solid No. 6 starter. But right now you can't count on him as No 5. I like Matt Boyd, but see him as a bullpen/spot start guy. I really don't see that every 5th day guy in the system right now. I like Fulmer's potential, but we are so far away.............

Ian Kennedy? Gallardo? Pelfrey? Leake?

Hopefully a comparison to Bonderman won't apply. Bonderman was not done in so much by his injury as by an unexpected poor surgical result (nerve damage). At least so far there is no reason to believe that Greene's surgery ran into the kind of complications Bonderman's did.

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Have the Carp officially posted him?

I don't see the Tigers spending money just for the right to negotiate with a bottom of the rotation inning-chewer like Maeda. There are enough of those guys they can negotiate with for free.

You only pay the posting fee if you end up signing the guy. So if we want him, it would be worth submitting a posting bid. Nothing to lose if we win the post, but then fail to reach terms.

I agree that we are in a great position now as far as a fifth starter goes. We can wait it out and sign someone in January or February for a year or two if we want. In the meantime, we can make the type of offers we want to the guys who are out there; if they accept, great*- if not, we will grab a cheaper guy later on. I'd be good with Kennedy, Young, Fister or someone similar in that role, even though I still really want Chen.

I'd say Young will get a 2/20 type of deal from someone, whereas Fister will be more like 1/8. Kennedy might get a three-year deal somewhere, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

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I think Greene is a guy that will be successful in Detroit. The first year didn't work out but I still like the guy. Fister should be in the 8-10 range for a one year deal and I would jump on that.

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I think Greene is a guy that will be successful in Detroit. The first year didn't work out but I still like the guy. Fister should be in the 8-10 range for a one year deal and I would jump on that.

You can't count last year...........strange injury.

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