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Mr.McGibblets

When will Tigers fans start to turn on Verlander?

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Am I missing something?

2013 Verlander: Pretty Good, though not GREAT.

2014 Verlander: Badish... recovering from core surgery which supposedly can take a year to really recover from.

2015 Verlander: Two outings. Two. One okay... one bad where he was left in too long by the manager.

No, I don't expect Verlander to return to his 09-12 type years. But I think too many people here are assuming Verlander is washed up. I'm more than willing to give him this year to sort himself out and I expect he'll be... decent... when it's all said and done.

Maybe I'm looking with Rose-colored glasses, I think too many of you are looking with S---er, brown colored glasses. We'll have to revisit in September and see if I'm eating crow or not then.

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I don't think I'll ever turn on Verlander regardless of how bad he becomes. At least if he is still trying to do his best, and I've seen nothing to indicate that he isn't.

At the time of the signing I said it was a ridiculous price to pay for an aging pitcher. Signing pitchers to long term contracts into their mid-late 30s almost never works out for the club. Especially signing them at huge prices because they're among the best in the game at the time. I also said that I had no qualms paying that price because keeping Verlander a Tiger for his career had (and still does have) value to me.

I didn't expect him to pitch anywhere near his 09-12 seasons for much longer...it just isn't sustainable, especially at the innings numbers he had thrown. I didn't expect him to fall off the cliff completely as he did last year and so far this year, but I am also not writing him off as bouncing back to merely average. If he could find a way to give us 3-4 years of quality #3 starter numbers I've got no beef with him whatsoever...the dude gave us his right arm for 7 years as probably the best stretch of pitching in franchise history.

So we are paying him for that stretch? Who cares...it was effing awesome while it was going on and no matter how bad he gets now and into the future, I'll never forget what he gave us when he was right. Same goes for Miggy if he starts to age poorly in a few years. I'm starting to question whether JV will rebound enough to get that statue next to Cabrera, but at the time of the extension it seemed like it was almost a lock he would. I was quite happy to pay the premium to have a chance to take my kids to Comerica and show them the statues of two greats I got to watch play in their prime.

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I wonder if verlander's statue would do his tight pants justice.

I guess we will never know.

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Turn back the clock a couple of years and you have 2 possible bad outcomes from the Verlander contract situation.

(a) Sign him to a huge extension, and then watch him turn into poop

(b) Offer him sensible contracts based on his age and IP, he turns them all down until free agency, signs with the Yankees for 8 years, wins another 150 games and his plaque in Cooperstown has a Yankees hat

Both of those outcomes were possibilities, and (b) would have been a lot worse than (a).

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I still am waiting to find out there is any good reason JV hasn't started throwing a two seam fastball. If he wants to get guys out that are fouling off (are under) his fastball, throw a FB they will hit on top of. Seems like an obvious development for him. This was the guy who once changed his curve ball grip in basically in the middle of a game and still threw strikes, so I have a hard time believing he would have any problem commanding a sinker. If the FB might go both up and down (relatively) he'll get more swings and misses on it as well.

I remember in 2009, Grienke was breaking out and Verlander talked to him in KC and asked what to do. Zack said he stopped throwing the 2 seamer because he figured little movement with pinpoint control was better than movement and sloppy control. Then Verlander reeled off that 11 strikeout game against the Yankees, the two Cliff Lee duels, the 13 strikeout game in the Metrodome, etc. So I think it goes back 6 years to him deciding that location was better than movement, and that at the time he couldn't locate the 2 seamer.

My guess is that he is throwing a 2 seamer now, and it just doesn't move all that much differently, in which case maybe it's time to find a new grip.

I was disappointed with the game in NY because those two of those homers were outs in other parks. But also because 4 years ago, when he had more backspin on his fastball than anyone in the game, they would've been medium depth flyouts rather than 310 footers. That said, I was pretty impressed with both the fastball and curveball, compared to what we saw last year.

I think it's going to be an ongoing adjustment period, but I see no reason why he can't get back to days of 200 IP, 8 k/9, 2.5 bb/9, #2-3 type numbers. He's certainly going to do everything he can to put himself in a position where that's possible. You can't question the guy's drive.

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Can't find the link but Danny Knobler tweeted an article earlier saying that scouts have come away impressed with Verlander's stuff his first two starts and say that it is much better than anything he had last year, he just needs better command which they think will come in time. Hopefully it's not just a fluff piece though.

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Always cracks me up when fans proclaim that a player doing anything off the field is affecting his play on the field. Just because nobody cares enough about romine to follow his every move doesn't mean he isn't doing the same thing. Bitter fans gonna bitter.

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Always cracks me up when fans proclaim that a player doing anything off the field is affecting his play on the field. Just because nobody cares enough about romine to follow his every move doesn't mean he isn't doing the same thing. Bitter fans gonna bitter.

I agree Romine probably does the same stuff. The only exception is probably Josh Wilson. You can just tell by looking at him that he he is all baseball all the time.

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Can't find the link but Danny Knobler tweeted an article earlier saying that scouts have come away impressed with Verlander's stuff his first two starts and say that it is much better than anything he had last year, he just needs better command which they think will come in time. Hopefully it's not just a fluff piece though.

Well I'm not a scout but that matches my assessment. He hasn't located any of his off-speed pitches anywhere near where they need to be to get a swing and miss, especially with 2 strikes. I don't get the feeling the hitters are seeing the pitches that well, but we'll see when it's not belt high down the middle of the plate or a foot in the dirt.

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Always cracks me up when fans proclaim that a player doing anything off the field is affecting his play on the field. Just because nobody cares enough about romine to follow his every move doesn't mean he isn't doing the same thing. Bitter fans gonna bitter.

I think if Romine were also dating Kate Upton that would be a huge story. Could even tear the clubhouse apart!

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I think if Romine were also dating Kate Upton that would be a huge story. Could even tear the clubhouse apart!

They would be forced to trade him for a future all-star shortstop.

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They would be forced to trade him for a future all-star shortstop.

Cale Iorg is out of baseball though.

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Cale Iorg is out of baseball though.

Other great Tiger vegetable names:

Ty Cobb

Don Pepper

Champ Summer Squash

Andrew Romain

Dick Raditsh

Opponent:

Lou Broccoli

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I remember in 2009, Grienke was breaking out and Verlander talked to him in KC and asked what to do. Zack said he stopped throwing the 2 seamer because he figured little movement with pinpoint control was better than movement and sloppy control. Then Verlander reeled off that 11 strikeout game against the Yankees, the two Cliff Lee duels, the 13 strikeout game in the Metrodome, etc. So I think it goes back 6 years to him deciding that location was better than movement, and that at the time he couldn't locate the 2 seamer.

..

If were me, I'd rather throw what they can't hit even if I made a mistake! But based on his movement charts I do think you may be right that there is a good chance that JV already does at vary the way he throws the FB, even if it doesn't rise all the way to what F/X can separate into 2 vs 4 seamer.

And I will say this, just as an untrained eye watching, his delivery looks night and day better than it has the last couple of years.

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So, buck farmer is getting a surprise call up after the game tonight, with Verlander scheduled to start tomorrow.

There is really no other reason to call up farmer unless they want him in the pen to replace Krol or gorzelanny.

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So, buck farmer is getting a surprise call up after the game tonight, with Verlander scheduled to start tomorrow.

There is really no other reason to call up farmer unless they want him in the pen to replace Krol or gorzelanny.

Well Krol can't seem to wrap his head around pitching to big leaguers so I don't know what good he is turning out to be. Maybe he can go to Toledo and take on Hessman's mantle for the next couple of decades as the greatest AAA player from the pitching side.

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Yeah, Krol sucks, but it's not like he started sucking today. If a bad reliever was being replaced, it could have been done before tonight.

Unless gorz had to clear waivers.

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Yeah, Krol sucks, but it's not like he started sucking today. If a bad reliever was being replaced, it could have been done before tonight.

Unless gorz had to clear waivers.

I doubt if they would cut a LH reliever with a game left with the Tribe. The tribe is very skewed LH on offense.

Could be sending down Kyle "No win" Ryan. (Actually I just like to hear that name. Yes, I realize he won one game.)

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But when the lefties are Ian Troll and Tom Gorzelanny, you might as well go with a righty.

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But when the lefties are Ian Troll and Tom Gorzelanny, you might as well go with a righty.

Agreed. Tom Gorzelanny Watkins. Dude should just play golf maybe.

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Other great Tiger vegetable names:

Ty Cobb

Don Pepper

Champ Summer Squash

Andrew Romain

Dick Raditsh

Opponent:

Lou Broccoli

Your post makes me want to go out and buy a cabbage patch kid.

1_576709901aafc1ab412167faca8849d0.jpg

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So, buck farmer is getting a surprise call up after the game tonight, with Verlander scheduled to start tomorrow.

There is really no other reason to call up farmer unless they want him in the pen to replace Krol or gorzelanny.

Ugh... granted, injuries are hard to predict but... I don't think it's a stretch to say that an older pitcher who's just getting back into the swing of things probably shouldn't be throwing 115 pitches in his second major league game of the year. Ausmus should have taken him out sooner.

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Ugh... granted, injuries are hard to predict but... I don't think it's a stretch to say that an older pitcher who's just getting back into the swing of things probably shouldn't be throwing 115 pitches in his second major league game of the year. Ausmus should have taken him out sooner.

Hey, it's never the manager's fault. They make no difference at all. Verlander should be grittier.

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