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Scherzer signs with Nats

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So, you are saying no player should ever become a free agent? Every player should just take whatever their team offers them even if they know they can make a lot more some place else.

Good luck tonight by the way. And enjoy your day off work tomorrow.

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Good luck tonight by the way. And enjoy your day off work tomorrow.

Thanks. I have a feeling they are over hyping this. I'll always take a day off though!

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The difference between $144m and $210m, properly invested, is basically adding another generation of your progeny who can live like royalty, or another three generations who can live better than most of us. That's huge. If I could guarantee that members of my family who won't be born until 2100 would never have to work if they didn't want to, or that they wouldn't have to take college loans, or that they'd never go without, you're ****in A right I hold out for more money. Unless I'm absolutely in love with the team that offered me the sum. Apparently Max wasn't, and that's totally fine.

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What's the difference if you don't plan to reproduce? The difference between only having one private jet versus two?

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...

"The Tigers believe Justin Verlander is in a good position for a bounce-back season in 2015. They do not necessarily expect his power fastball to bounce back with it.

"Justin may think he is, but I don't think he's going to come out and throw 98-99 [mph] on a regular basis," team president/general manager Dave Dombrowski said at last week's Winter Meetings. "But we never thought that, when we signed him long-term, that he would do that."

Tigers expect Verlander to adjust style, bounce back | tigers.com

.

But I personally think this is an uniformed view of what really happens to pitchers. On average, across the league, you can say with statistical support that pitcher velocity fall with age, but that is in general, not specific to each individual pitcher. In my reading, it's the accumulation of arm injuries that is the primary cause of velocity loss. In other words, a pitcher throws at X, not just until he gets a year older, but until he sustains more injury or accumulated damage that takes him a step down to X minus a couple more. I believe that a pitcher who has not sustained arm injury will pretty much keep pitching at the same velocity until he does, because human athletes do not get weaker - particularly between 30 and 35, and unlike hitters, pitchers do not need to sustain the incredible reflexes hitters need to succeed, which do start to decay much earlier than strength. Justin has been extremely lucky that his injuries have not been to his arm. Now it is quite possible he will not be able to stay healthy in the rest of his body and thus still may not be able to pitch effectively (control, stamina etc), but I tend to think he will still throw very hard if he gets his core back under him. We shall see.

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I'm sure that isn't what he was insinuating.

Also, I'll bet the 99% thing is way off. Shields turned down his highest offer because he didn't like the team, for example, and we never hear reasoning or negotiation details of lesser players. They're no different than we are. Being in the right situation matters just as much as the money, especially when you're making a ton of it already.

Did Shields turn down an offer that had as big of a gap as the one between the Tigers and Nationals? I think it would be pretty rare for a player to do that. If two offers are not far apart, then they might take the smaller offer if it's a better situation. That's what we'd do too.

Not really sure what Freak is insinuating. I'm matching hyperbole with hyperbole.

Edited by tiger337

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I'm sure that isn't what he was insinuating.

Also, I'll bet the 99% thing is way off. Shields turned down his highest offer because he didn't like the team, for example, and we never hear reasoning or negotiation details of lesser players. They're no different than we are. Being in the right situation matters just as much as the money, especially when you're making a ton of it already.

I disagree, that is exactly what he was insinuating, and its absurd IMHO.

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The difference between $144m and $210m, properly invested, is basically adding another generation of your progeny who can live like royalty, or another three generations who can live better than most of us. That's huge. If I could guarantee that members of my family who won't be born until 2100 would never have to work if they didn't want to, or that they wouldn't have to take college loans, or that they'd never go without, you're ****in A right I hold out for more money. Unless I'm absolutely in love with the team that offered me the sum. Apparently Max wasn't, and that's totally fine.

Agreed....I'm someone who places a high value on loyalty, but people have got to be able to look after their own too.

If Sportsfreak woke up on the other side of the bed, he would be asking why the owner wouldn't simply pay max whatever is needed to keep him here out of loyalty to max and to the fans... Which would be at the other extreme of absurdity in my opinion.

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I haven't followed the Scherzer contract impact in this thread but is the implication being made that he somehow ticked off his teammates by turning down their offer? I think that's balderdash. This is a business and the players know better than anyone else the impact of that. JV and Cabrera got market friendly contract offers.... Scherzer, as we saw with his deal with Washington, did not. Sure he wouldn't have gone broke by taking it. If the players were put off by anything there it would have been the team going public with their offer and his rejection, that was an odd thing to do, and I still don't understand why they did it. The players know their obligations to each other and Max fulfilled that.

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I haven't followed the Scherzer contract impact in this thread but is the implication being made that he somehow ticked off his teammates by turning down their offer? I think that's balderdash. This is a business and the players know better than anyone else the impact of that. JV and Cabrera got market friendly contract offers.... Scherzer, as we saw with his deal with Washington, did not. Sure he wouldn't have gone broke by taking it. If the players were put off by anything there it would have been the team going public with their offer and his rejection, that was an odd thing to do, and I still don't understand why they did it. The players know their obligations to each other and Max fulfilled that.

If anything, the players union probably frowns upon a player taking a much lower offer than he can get. Every time a player signs a big contract like that, he raises the bar for everyone else.

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Exactly... that's what I meant about obligations to each other, I was talking about business, not on the field. Each guy has to do his part to set the salary bar.

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Getting back OT, Max took out full page ads today in the Free Press and Detroit News thanking the fans. I wonder how much THAT cost?

Probably could have fed a family for several months. F you Max, go count your money and shove the newspaper ad where the sun don't shine.

A real horse's behind.

While I agree that he could have done something more beneficial with his money to help people, this reaction was way worse than the decision that Max made.

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I haven't followed the Scherzer contract impact in this thread but is the implication being made that he somehow ticked off his teammates by turning down their offer? I think that's balderdash. This is a business and the players know better than anyone else the impact of that. JV and Cabrera got market friendly contract offers.... Scherzer, as we saw with his deal with Washington, did not. Sure he wouldn't have gone broke by taking it. If the players were put off by anything there it would have been the team going public with their offer and his rejection, that was an odd thing to do, and I still don't understand why they did it. The players know their obligations to each other and Max fulfilled that.

This is where I will never, ever agree. $144 million isn't fair? OK, ONLY because he got $210 million. So that's the new going rate for a SP in MLB? Or are we saying Max thinks he's better than everyone else?

Look, it's obvious I'm in the minority with my opinion. I guess I'm the only one who feels that Max and Boras are prime examples of everything that's wrong with baseball. Maybe it's because I'm older or such a Tiger fan? Either way, I see it as a slap in the face to the fans. But from here on out, I'll keep my opinion to myself.

Good luck to Max and I hope the extra 66 million dollars makes his life much better than it would have been. Because we all know money buys happiness, health and love. Loyalty? Not so much, that's for sale to the highest bidder. :classic:

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Loyalty? Not so much, that's for sale to the highest bidder. :classic:

Why should Max have shown Detroit some loyalty and taken 46% less than what his FMV is? The loyalty card is an easy one to play, but a hard one to support.

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I think your expectations of the players is unfair. It's a business. I don't see why the player has an obligation to take less than what they are worth and they are worth what the market dictates. Max wasn't drafted by the Tigers. He was traded here. He didn't ask to come to Detroit. He's not from Detroit. He has a job and was assigned to work in Detroit. They reach a point in their career where now they have a choice where to work. I don't see why he should be expected to take less money to stay and work here. If I suddenly was given a chance to do my same exact job and had people from all over the country bidding on me.... I'd think about what's best for me and my family.

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I see both sides of this argument and agree with both sides.

The baseball fan in me feels like is is harder to get behind (fully) the guys on my team because who knows where they will be playing the next year. It happens with trades also, but the big one is an example like this one. Where you have a player offered a very fair contract and he holds out for more somewhere else.

The reasonable side of me realizes it is a business and it will happen, but it does not mean I have to like it.

The money is what convoluted the whole thing IMO. We see 144,000,000.00 and immediately think that is more than we will make in a lifetime so it should be good enough for them.

If you could have the same job with a different company, but get paid 46% more and everything else being relatively equal...wouldn't you do it? Most people would so it is hard to get upset over it.

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I see both sides of this argument and agree with both sides.

You can't do that. Grow a pair and pick a side.

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We got fair value from Max for the amount we paid for him during his time in Detroit. If anything we got the bargain end of the deal because he pitched so well. Good for us. I see no reason to have any grudge against him for seeking the best contract available to him and leaving Detroit. He didn't owe us anything. If anything, I appreciate the fact that he went to the NL so I don't have to see him pitching against us regularly for the next 7 years.

So thanks, Max. And good luck.

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This whole saga has at least illustrated the benefit of team control years. That type of stuff is often dismissed when considering trades, but there is always the chance that a better offer is sitting out there for a guy you want to sign, whether it's your own free agent or another one you are hoping to get.

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Why should Scherzer be loyal to the Tigers? He fulfilled his contract with them, arguably to the point of pitching above his salary. Why weren't the Tigers loyal to Scherzer by offering more than Washington? The loyalty sword cuts both ways. And how the hell is taking out a full page ad thanking the Tigers and their fans "insulting?" Because it cost a lot of money and could support a family? Yes, it could. Do you know what families it is currently supporting? Those of Free Press employees, that's who. Are you insinuating that their families are less worthy of that money than others are? Would you say that to their faces?

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We got fair value from Max for the amount we paid for him during his time in Detroit. If anything we got the bargain end of the deal because he pitched so well. Good for us. I see no reason to have any grudge against him for seeking the best contract available to him and leaving Detroit. He didn't owe us anything. If anything, I appreciate the fact that he went to the NL so I don't have to see him pitching against us regularly for the next 7 years.

So thanks, Max. And good luck.

Exactly.

When it is all said and done, Detroit will almost certainly have gotten the bulk of the career surplus value of Max' performance relative to his salary.

That is a perfectly reasonable / rational way for the Tigers to want to operate.

Max wanting to maximize the reward paid him for being a superior MLB pitcher is perfectly reasonable / rational way for him to operate.

Sometimes there is no common ground in a negotiation.

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$144 million isn't fair? OK, ONLY because he got $210 million.

Precisely. Washington making that offer rendered the early offer unattractive and established the new market price for Max' services.

Side note: It looks to me Washington overbid Detroit's offer by as much as they did to try to discourage a counter-bid from Detroit and/or sweeten the pot enough for Max to want to leave.

Maybe I am in the minority, but the fact Washington did that suggests to me they viewed Detroit as a threat to sign and/or Max preferred to stay in Detroit.

So that's the new going rate for a SP in MLB?

For one of Max' caliber and age, yes.

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