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You like the work, but not the artist..........

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when I went to Nashville this last summer it was easy to see why he went there... even casual visiting the places downtown you can see a somewhat diverse music scene. It's not just country.

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I am not especially a fan of Tom's acting, but he has done some good work.

Cruise does some stellar work.

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The Hustler was better than The Color of Money IMO. Jackie Gleason did most of his own shots, but the hard ones were the hands of Willie Mosconi. I remember watching that movie when I was a little kid. Being a pool shark seemed like a neat thing to be at the time. Young and stupid will do that I guess. In the real world I'll bet "Vinnie" would have gotten beat up.

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The Hustler was better than The Color of Money IMO. Jackie Gleason did most of his own shots, but the hard ones were the hands of Willie Mosconi. I remember watching that movie when I was a little kid. Being a pool shark seemed like a neat thing to be at the time. Young and stupid will do that I guess. In the real world I'll bet "Vinnie" would have gotten beat up.

The Hustler was 10+ times better than the Color of Money.

Cruise took a while to develop his acting chops, and it is fairly evident in his early roles, which either demonstrated his lack of acting range at the time or were not complex roles.

EDIT: and Vinnie would have been crushed if he tried his crap in seedy pool halls.

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There's one shot of Gleason that I can tell he scratches as they cut really fast from it as the cue ball movest towards the pocket. It was still a great shot. I liked the transformation with his character as at the end you can see that he's not such a bigshot and just a puppet for George C Scott.

I did some research at the time and found that the pool that I played growing up in the basements was not that popular back then.

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I didn't see The Hustler until just a few years ago. After watching it a few times I had to see The Color Of Money. Cruise ruined it. The problem is that he wasn't "Tom Cruise mega star" at that point, was he? That and Top Gun came out the same year. I was watching as the mega star but in the context of who he was at the time maybe the movie would have played different.

Hm. Didn't have any complaint about COM. I'd agree COM is not as good a film as the Hustler, but its also in a very different genre. The Hustler is film Noir to the max. You just can't make a 'modern' - especially color - film and get that kind of mood anymore. I think what did work in COM is that the Cruise character does ring fairly true as what Fast Eddy might be if grew up 40 years later in the suburbs.

I'm missing what you mean about the megastar thing - do you mean too big a star wasn't believable in the role, or that Cruise didn't let himself disappear into the role enough not to be "Tom Cruise-MovieStar" the whole time? Newman was for sure already as big as Cruise when he made the Hustler.

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The first two that popped in my mind...

R. Kelly - I'm a sucker for his ridiculous music, but he's such a **** person that it is tough for me to pay for it.

Blood For Blood - grew up loving this band. A year or so ago the singer got arrested for molesting a young niece of his. Still creeps into my mind when I listen to the music. Especially since a lot of the lyrics are so angry and aggressive.

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The first two that popped in my mind...

R. Kelly - I'm a sucker for his ridiculous music, but he's such a **** person that it is tough for me to pay for it.

Blood For Blood - grew up loving this band. A year or so ago the singer got arrested for molesting a young niece of his. Still creeps into my mind when I listen to the music. Especially since a lot of the lyrics are so angry and aggressive.

Now that I'm a liberal (:wink:) I can claim John Wayne. He was crazy-reactionary-nearly-racist-maybe really-racist-conservative. But I still like a lot of his characters.

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The Hustler was 10+ times better than the Color of Money.

Cruise took a while to develop his acting chops, and it is fairly evident in his early roles, which either demonstrated his lack of acting range at the time or were not complex roles.

EDIT: and Vinnie would have been crushed if he tried his crap in seedy pool halls.

I don't know if bad acting was the problem with Cruse in COM, but that schtick didn't seem realistic then, now, or anytime.

I spent some time in pool halls back in the 60/70s (my Dad was a kick *** pool player, I had my own stick). Not quite like what we saw in COM, or the Hustler (completely different time) but a pool hall where people gambled (sometimes with not enough money in their pocket if they lost), and plenty of seedy people. Vinnie would have got his *** taken outside and beaten to a pulp, or a pool stick up side the head.

I don't know if that was Cruise or the way the movie portrayed him, but he was stupid. The real world don't work that way (I know it is a movie, but still).

I still love 9 ball.

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I don't know if bad acting was the problem with Cruse in COM, but that schtick didn't seem realistic then, now, or anytime.

I spent some time in pool halls back in the 60/70s (my Dad was a kick *** pool player, I had my own stick). Not quite like what we saw in COM, or the Hustler (completely different time) but a pool hall where people gambled (sometimes with not enough money in their pocket if they lost), and plenty of seedy people. Vinnie would have got his *** taken outside and beaten to a pulp, or a pool stick up side the head.

I don't know if that was Cruise or the way the movie portrayed him, but he was stupid. The real world don't work that way (I know it is a movie, but still).

I still love 9 ball.

He did. The only reason it did not happen more is because Fast Eddie was always with him...you will recall fast Eddie was the REASON he got whooped in that scene. He took off on him to teach him a lesson.

Just found my cue after many years of not playing really. I was an average player at best, but I loved to play. I actually JUST commented to my wife yesterday how we should have made our family room a pool room. We NEVER go in there and we spent enough money on new furniture to buy a REAL nice pool table. Then at least it would have gotten some use. I do not think I have even sat on the new furniture yet and it has been close to 3 months.

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Now that I'm a liberal (:wink:) I can claim John Wayne. He was crazy-reactionary-nearly-racist-maybe really-racist-conservative. But I still like a lot of his characters.

There is a thread regarding Roman Polanski and those who would continue to pay money to see his movies. Interesting and worth a re-read.

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/motownsports-bar-grill/6975-separate-art-artist.html

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I don't know if bad acting was the problem with Cruse in COM, but that schtick didn't seem realistic then, now, or anytime.

Yeah - that is it in a nutshell. He goes from being totally clueless (obnoxiously so) to becoming saavy enough to duping Fast Eddie after a few months. Come on.

How much to lay on the writing and the acting, I don't know, but Cruise demonstrated no subtlety in his evolution. Basically he plays a clueless douche or a world class pool shark with no in between.

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He did. The only reason it did not happen more is because Fast Eddie was always with him...you will recall fast Eddie was the REASON he got whooped in that scene. He took off on him to teach him a lesson.

Just found my cue after many years of not playing really. I was an average player at best, but I loved to play. I actually JUST commented to my wife yesterday how we should have made our family room a pool room. We NEVER go in there and we spent enough money on new furniture to buy a REAL nice pool table. Then at least it would have gotten some use. I do not think I have even sat on the new furniture yet and it has been close to 3 months.

I haven't watched the movie in a while so I can't remember what happened. I just don't think he acted in the movie like anyone you would see in real life. The Hustler wasn't like that, it was more believable.

One of my next home projects will be to finish the basement. I plan on putting a pool table down there (a small 4x6 bar table). I have it all figured out and laid out the rooms accordingly. I would also like a pinball machine - a 1969 Gottlieb Spin-a-Card. There are a few around. I have been looking for one.

Anyone knows where one of those are, let me know. I'll pay a finders fee if it all works out.

Friday nights in Jr. High were spent using paper route or lawn mowing money into that pinball machine (doing my best Pinball Wizard impersonation) to win enough free games (you could run it up to 15 I think) and sell them for more money so you could play 9 ball (nickel on the 5, dime on the 9) or pea pool (buck a game) the rest of the night. That was huge money when you were 13-14.

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Yeah - that is it in a nutshell. He goes from being totally clueless (obnoxiously so) to becoming saavy enough to duping Fast Eddie after a few months. Come on.

How much to lay on the writing and the acting, I don't know, but Cruise demonstrated no subtlety in his evolution. Basically he plays a clueless douche or a world class pool shark with no in between.

I agree, and that's the biggest thing I didn't like about the movie. Newman and MEM were ok, Cruse, not so much.

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I agree, and that's the biggest thing I didn't like about the movie. Newman and MEM were ok, Cruse, not so much.

I also don't think the MEM character would have even been with Vince at the beginning of the film.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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I would also like a pinball machine - a 1969 Gottlieb Spin-a-Card. There are a few around. I have been looking for one.

Anyone knows where one of those are, let me know. I'll pay a finders fee if it all works out.

I have a buddy who refurbishes pinball machines. I can put you in touch with him. No finders fee is necessary.

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I was never a big fan of Michael Jackson but I did like some of his songs back when he was big. Bu after all the kid molesting stuff, I could no longer listen to anything by him. Even the Jackson 5 stuff.

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I was never a big fan of Michael Jackson but I did like some of his songs back when he was big. Bu after all the kid molesting stuff, I could no longer listen to anything by him. Even the Jackson 5 stuff.

This is one with me....I still like his stuff, but whenever I hear a song by him one of the first things out of my mouth is that he was a pedo. Somehow then I feel justified in listening to it and liking it.

We used to go to Boogey Fever once a year for the mother in laws birthday. They played ALOT of MJ. I always made sure to remind people what he was...then I listen.

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I can't say that an artist's illegal or politically/morally offensive behavior has much of an effect on how I view the particular piece of art.

That isn't true of athletes though. If I don't like a particular player, I tend not to like his play, even if it is objectively good.

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I also don't think the MEM character would have even been with Vince at the beginning of the film.

No, probably not. That never seemed a match to me. My memory is bad, but I think she was in other stuff in that era, and a Newman, Cruse, MEM ticket was more important than better casting, ie, names over content. I didn't mind, I thought she was kinda hot.

Then again, I don't get out much, the pool thing (all about some tournament) is kind of like the Poker thing, no? They might have some characters like that now. The Vinnie thing turned me off too, reminded me of John Travolta, and I can't stand him.

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I have a buddy who refurbishes pinball machines. I can put you in touch with him. No finders fee is necessary.

Thank you, and I hope he knows you as Biff. :-)

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Bruce Springsteen for me. I can't stand his political stance and how he chooses to support it. His music touches a nerve with me in a good way but I can't force myself to spend my money on any of his output. I guess others feel the same way about Nugent too.

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I got my first "real" amplifier and microphone playing pool. Ahhhh...Blue Crystal Lanes in Kalamazoo. Those were the days. Went to a pool hall here a while back. Those eight foot tables I used to love might as well have been a freaking putting green.

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I got my first "real" amplifier and microphone playing pool. Ahhhh...Blue Crystal Lanes in Kalamazoo. Those were the days. Went to a pool hall here a while back. Those eight foot tables I used to love might as well have been a freaking putting green.

Pool and bowling alley's - ah, the memories - some good, some not so good. :-)

I picked up a cue about 6 months ago and couldn't make squat on a 6 foot table. The college days of skipping out of class, going to the bar and playing people for pitchers and drinking free all night are over. :-(

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Going back to Color of Money.... What I meant about Cruise is that knowing him as a superstar sort of colored (so to speak) my feel for what his character was supposed to be. I'm thinking "This is Tom Cruise the best figher pilot, the best bartender, the best younger brother of an autistic man he didn't know about..." I also think my expectations of the movie itself were too high considering it was Scorsese tackling a legendary subject.

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