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sadly that would have been a much better offseason than we got

Hudler at that price has to cancel out some of the good of Selanne and to a lesser extent Jagr!

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Ugh, Kenny for sure should have tried this.

Holland doesn't go after restricted free agents, never has and never will. He'll try to work a trade but you'll never see him throw out an offer sheet.

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The details are- The Philadelphia Flyers offerd Shea Weber a 37 year contract for 1 Billion Dollars.

Actually 7.1 a year (on average) is not that bad for him, but 14 years? I hope Shea likes Philly. I hope he doesn't get on their bad side.

And there is a positive way of looking at this. One of our biggest divisional competitors has gone from pain in the arse to likely being a non-playoff team. So this actually does help the Wings. At least he is not going to a West team or the Penguins.

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Holland doesn't go after restricted free agents, never has and never will. He'll try to work a trade but you'll never see him throw out an offer sheet.

4 first rounders when the best Wings players are all over 30 is probably not a good long-term strategy. Plus, everyone copies the way the Wings are run, which means that almost all the teams do major European scouting and those gems like Dats and Hank don't slip past the 2nd and 3rd round for the Wings to scoop up......they need those picks now.

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Nashville will probably match, no?

The front loaded money could be an issue for them financially, and Weber's agent gave an interview saying he wants to play in Philly and doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, so the Predators might not want to bring a guy back for 12 years if he doesn't want to play there anymore.

Although I still think they might match. I'm sure their fanbase would suffer tremendously if they didn't.

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Holland doesn't go after restricted free agents, never has and never will. He'll try to work a trade but you'll never see him throw out an offer sheet.

"never" shouldn't be in the vocabulary of any NHL GM.

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The front loaded money could be an issue for them financially, and Weber's agent gave an interview saying he wants to play in Philly and doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, so the Predators might not want to bring a guy back for 12 years if he doesn't want to play there anymore.

Yep, if they do match they could instantly have a Rick Nash or Jeff Carter situation on their hands.

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4 first rounders when the best Wings players are all over 30 is probably not a good long-term strategy. Plus, everyone copies the way the Wings are run, which means that almost all the teams do major European scouting and those gems like Dats and Hank don't slip past the 2nd and 3rd round for the Wings to scoop up......they need those picks now.

I disagree. Your chances of getting one Shea Weber out of those four first round picks are slim and none. He's 26, in his prime for another several years. He's everything the Wings want and need in a defenseman and probably the only guy out there that could even remotely be a replacement for Lidstrom. Not to mention, we have no idea what the CBA will entail and getting free agents in the future and being able to fit them under the cap with the long term deals may be a thing of the past. I wouldn't have had a problem if they had offered him even more per year on average. I think he's worth a million more per year than Suter. Even if Nashville had matched it least would have given me the feeling that they were doing something. It also could have hurt Nashville as a team by tying up money they don't really have to spend. I don't really see any positives to it. It is still July, but I'm not liking how this summer is going so far.

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"never" shouldn't be in the vocabulary of any NHL GM.

Apparently there weren't any trade talks with Nashville, but the Wings were in contact with Weber's agent. Weber apparently visited Detroit on his own, but it sounds like he didn't want to ultimately come to Detroit. He chose Philadelphia over Detroit, NYR, etc. Who knows what Holland would have done if Weber's agent had told him that he was interested in coming to Detroit.

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Even if Nashville had matched it least would have given me the feeling that they were doing something.

Making moves so that the fanbase can rest well knowing that they were "active" is not a good strategy, and you would have locked Weber into your division rival for 12 years. That's a lot of head smashes against Zetterberg.

And I'm sure the Wings have been active, sometimes players choose to go other places. The Wings were in contact with Weber's agent, and Weber decided he'd rather play in Philadelphia. STUPID HOLLAND.

edit: jeez Weber's agent is talking out of both sides of his mouth, says that Weber doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild in Nashville and then says if the Predators match: "These guys are after one thing and that's winning hockey games. I don't foresee there being a problem." haha oooookkaaayyyy

Edited by drownwithyou

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While I like what Philly has done here, I think there are three constants with the Flyers organization: a) they always have dressing room politics and management-player battles; b) they never seem to have a plan, they switch direction (out of desperation?) quite often; and c) they never get reliable goaltending. Add that all together and their Cup drought is 37 years.

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And I'm sure the Wings have been active, sometimes players choose to go other places. The Wings were in contact with Weber's agent, and Weber decided he'd rather play in Philadelphia. STUPID HOLLAND.

I agree he's not stupid, but part of Holland's job is to successfully pitch the player on playing for his team. Like a college football coach recruiting. The fact that Weber chose Philly is a Red Wings failure. Unless he doesn't like the idea of living in the city of Detroit (truly not the most glamorous of cities to spend your next decade), Holland should have had as many tools at his disposal to entice Weber as the Flyers had.

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I love the fact that Nashville has to match. It could really hurt them in the coming years. Go ahead and match, but don't count on adding any top notch free agents for several years.

A BIG Thank You to Philly!

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Making moves so that the fanbase can rest well knowing that they were "active" is not a good strategy, and you would have locked Weber into your division rival for 12 years. That's a lot of head smashes against Zetterberg.

And I'm sure the Wings have been active, sometimes players choose to go other places. The Wings were in contact with Weber's agent, and Weber decided he'd rather play in Philadelphia. STUPID HOLLAND.

edit: jeez Weber's agent is talking out of both sides of his mouth, says that Weber doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild in Nashville and then says if the Predators match: "These guys are after one thing and that's winning hockey games. I don't foresee there being a problem." haha oooookkaaayyyy

I see what you're saying and in general agree with that...but this year is different...and I don't think it's so much satisfying the fans, but the players and coaches. Babcock mentioned that he felt that the Wings didn't have the depth that was needed to win. Adding Samuelsson and Tootoo really doesn't seem to address that. Not to mention they haven't yet added a single experienced defenseman to the mix. Obviously no one can replace Nick Lidstrom, but to do virtually nothing half way through the offseason doesn't really get me excited about the upcoming season.

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Imagine if Holland had gone to Suter on July 1. Said we'd love to have you in the Wings uniform, this is our best offer. We hope you accept by this time tomorrow. By July 2, we're going hard after Weber and will submit a big offer sheet to him. That might have caused the heads of Poile, Suter and Weber and that of all other teams in the mix all to spin.

Doesn't it just seem - going only by what we've read - that Holland has been reacting and deferential rather than aggressively proactive this offseason. The Tigers didn't seem to be on Prince Fielder's radar until the Tigers suddenly came out of nowhere and didn't take no for an answer. The opposite seems to have happened with the Wings' offseason.

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I agree he's not stupid, but part of Holland's job is to successfully pitch the player on playing for his team. Like a college football coach recruiting. The fact that Weber chose Philly is a Red Wings failure. Unless he doesn't like the idea of living in the city of Detroit (truly not the most glamorous of cities to spend your next decade), Holland should have had as many tools at his disposal to entice Weber as the Flyers had.

We'll probably never know why he didn't want to come to Detroit, but he did come check out the city on his own before making his decision. I guess I just don't see this as a failure, or as big of a failure, as others. It's almost declaring every other team a failure for not signing Weber to that contract, or the very least the ones with the need/fit with him.

From what I can tell, players still love playing in Detroit. Players want to stay here, and they often return after leaving. It appears as though Illitch does what he can to provide the players with perks and whatnot, and the community treats the players well. I just don't buy into the Wings' failure so much as the teams lose out on free agents all the time, sometimes you just don't know what is going to drive the players' decisions. Maybe Weber didn't want to be in the same division as the Predators out of some twisted sort of loyalty (seems like a weird thing though)? Maybe he doesn't like Detroit, or prefers the country suburbs outside of Philadelphia to the ones outside of Detroit? I guess we could speculate all day.

I will admit that I was a lot stronger in my belief of the Wings' allure before this offseason, so perhaps you are more right than I am. I'm just more in the this is what happens in free agency sometimes rather than a big failure, but there is a good chance that it is a mixture of both.

Mehm, I can agree this offseason doesn't make me excited either. But at the same time I don't see exactly see what else they could have done (although waiting in the Suter/Parise situation seemed a bit odd considering the Suter delaying and not coming close in their offer to Parise, but who knows if they were really sitting around waiting or were trying things out). I'd say the offseason is disappointing, but I don't know if it is a total reflection on the Wings not doing what they could.

I'd also like to thank everyone for all their posts, I love talking Wings! This has been a great offseason thread, I hope it stays active.

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"never" shouldn't be in the vocabulary of any NHL GM.

Hockey is a business and Holland considers poaching restricted free agents to be bad business. He's widely regarded as one of the best and classiest GM's in the league so I'm going to say that he's doing the right thing. There are a lot of other GM's that take the same approach.

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Imagine if Holland had gone to Suter on July 1. Said we'd love to have you in the Wings uniform, this is our best offer. We hope you accept by this time tomorrow. By July 2, we're going hard after Weber and will submit a big offer sheet to him. That might have caused the heads of Poile, Suter and Weber and that of all other teams in the mix all to spin.

Doesn't it just seem - going only by what we've read - that Holland has been reacting and deferential rather than aggressively proactive this offseason. The Tigers didn't seem to be on Prince Fielder's radar until the Tigers suddenly came out of nowhere and didn't take no for an answer. The opposite seems to have happened with the Wings' offseason.

I'm sure if they could have given Suter $214 million he would have signed anything the Wings put in front of him!

I can get behind your idea of the Suter/Weber scenario. I do like that the Wings upped their original offer to Suter, included with flying out to meet with him to present the offer. I don't think it was the worst thing to do in the situation, but I guess they could have been more forceful. But who knows if Suter would have been like okay... go talk to Weber I'm still getting paid yo! And then Weber could have told them he didn't want to sign in Detroit, like he did, and then the Wings would probably be called out by fans for playing too much hardball with Suter, causing them to get neither.

Pretty much, free agency periods are judged with the outcome I guess... I just get skeptical on whether other strategies would have gotten the job done anyways. Unless the Wings are doing something like sending a contingent of drunk Hudler and his stable of prostitutes to Suter to offer him 5 bucks I'll give the Wings the benefit of the doubt...

I think I'm just a homer :ermm:

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We'll probably never know why he didn't want to come to Detroit, but he did come check out the city on his own before making his decision. I guess I just don't see this as a failure, or as big of a failure, as others. It's almost declaring every other team a failure for not signing Weber to that contract, or the very least the ones with the need/fit with him.

From what I can tell, players still love playing in Detroit. Players want to stay here, and they often return after leaving. It appears as though Illitch does what he can to provide the players with perks and whatnot, and the community treats the players well. I just don't buy into the Wings' failure so much as the teams lose out on free agents all the time, sometimes you just don't know what is going to drive the players' decisions. Maybe Weber didn't want to be in the same division as the Predators out of some twisted sort of loyalty (seems like a weird thing though)? Maybe he doesn't like Detroit, or prefers the country suburbs outside of Philadelphia to the ones outside of Detroit? I guess we could speculate all day.

I will admit that I was a lot stronger in my belief of the Wings' allure before this offseason, so perhaps you are more right than I am. I'm just more in the this is what happens in free agency sometimes rather than a big failure, but there is a good chance that it is a mixture of both.

Mehm, I can agree this offseason doesn't make me excited either. But at the same time I don't see exactly see what else they could have done (although waiting in the Suter/Parise situation seemed a bit odd considering the Suter delaying and not coming close in their offer to Parise, but who knows if they were really sitting around waiting or were trying things out). I'd say the offseason is disappointing, but I don't know if it is a total reflection on the Wings not doing what they could.

I'd also like to thank everyone for all their posts, I love talking Wings! This has been a great offseason thread, I hope it stays active.

Also, consider the travel in playing in the East against playing in the West. All those West Coast trips can wear on you, playing in the West.

I agree, it's great talking Wings, especially in the off-season. I often read many of the threads/posts but there are many here who know more about hockey than I do, it's hard for me to base any of my opinions on facts. But ragging on Holland? IMO, he's one of the best GM's in the business and maybe he knows something we don't? Like, he wants the Wings to be in the hunt during the season/playoffs, but he may feel we're too many pieces away for a Stanley Cup? Or, maybe, just maybe, we'll see many of these very expensive free agents getting hurt or not play up to their potential? With a salary cap, he has to keep flexibility to make moves during the season. Anyone know how much the Wings are under the cap?

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Hockey is a business and Holland considers poaching restricted free agents to be bad business. He's widely regarded as one of the best and classiest GM's in the league so I'm going to say that he's doing the right thing. There are a lot of other GM's that take the same approach.

As a general rule, fine. But when Columbus refuses even to dignify the Wings' offer for Nash with a response and if Poile stubbornly was refusing to talk about trading Weber to a Western team, there's nothing to have stopped from Kenny saying: "Hey, you know I don't like the idea of submitting an offer sheet to an RFA, to me it's a greasy way of doing business. But I also don't like the idea of a GM flat out refusing to talk a deal with me just because we might meet in the playoffs some day. So let's be practical here. Let's try to work something out. Man to man. Otherwise, this is fair warning that I'm going to break one of my normal rules and will go hard after Weber even if that's disadvantageous to you. I'm sure everyone around the league will recognize and understand this exception".

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I agree with whoever said, think it was LS, that the Wings appear to be reactive instead of proactive. I think that's what's getting to me more than anything. Seem to be just kind of waiting to see what everyone else is doing as opposed to being the trailblazer. I generally trust Holland and company, but with the room in the salary cap, the impending changes in the CBA and the subtractions that the team has had, I just expected more.

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there's nothing to have stopped from Kenny saying: "Hey, you know I don't like the idea of submitting an offer sheet to an RFA, to me it's a greasy way of doing business. But I also don't like the idea of a GM flat out refusing to talk a deal with me just because we might meet in the playoffs some day. So let's be practical here. Let's try to work something out. Man to man. Otherwise, this is fair warning that I'm going to break one of my normal rules and will go hard after Weber even if that's disadvantageous to you. I'm sure everyone around the league will recognize and understand this exception".

Well they were talking to Weber's agent, who told him that they were choosing Philadelphia. So it seems as though it was possible that he would have gone against his usual thinking and offered a deal if he thought Weber would consider it. But who knows.

edit: will agree on appearing reactionary.

ALSO

I hated reading something that they'd "wait" on Doan's decision. NO MORE WAITING ON SPECIFIC FREE AGENTS.

Edited by drownwithyou

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