Jump to content

Trayvon Martin


Melody
 Share

Recommended Posts

Somewhere in this thread today or yesterday someone posted about a similar case in which a woman who was black fired warning shots into a wall to avoid an abusive husband. she was convicted in Florida for 20 years. Well the cases are not similar; Marissa Alexander had a protective order on her husband when he entered her domicile. She left the premises and retrieved a gun, returned and opened fire. She claimed SYG which would not work in her case and since she admitted her guilt, she fell under the min mandatory statutes of discharging a weapon in a violent manner. There are consequences, even in Florida.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BetMGM Michigan $600 Risk-Free bet

BetMGM Michigan Sports Betting
Michigan online sports betting is now available! Start betting at BetMGM Michigan now and get a $600 risk-free bet bonus at their online sportsbook & casino.

Claim $600 risk-free bet at BetMGM Michigan Now

POTUS today:

The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin.
I hope I am not the only one who finds the term gun violence offensive when describing an American citizen defending his life as the jury determined. And for the second bolded........Why?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stand your ground wasn't at issue here. Normally, if you are being attacked, you have a duty to retreat. You must exercise this duty first before fighting back. Stand your ground is a new law that takes away this duty to retreat. So even if you can avoid confrontation, you do not have to. You can "stand your ground."

What was at issue here was normal self-defense rules. You can defend yourself with non-lethal force if you are attacked with non-lethal force. If you use lethal force to defend yourself from non-lethal force, you will at least get charged with manslaughter. You can only use lethal force to defend yourself if it is the only way to save your own life.

A lot of jurisdictions take away the self-defense defense if you are the aggressor. In Florida, however, the rules have been altered, so that even if you start the fight, you can still retaliate against the guy you provoked with deadly force if he uses deadly force in retaliation.

What the jury in the Trayvon Martin trial has told us is that teenagers with fists are a threat to the life of adults with guns--and therefore if you are an adult with a gun and you "fear for your life," you can shoot an unarmed teenager through the heart.

I pretty much agree with all your points here (though I think SYG was at least made out to be the issue, if only for GZ invoking it by him proclaiming he was feeling "threatened"). I think your last point is the most important though. I simply do not think that in the heat of the moment most people can be trusted to think rationally if they think they are in danger - and a law that backs them up if they choose to be the aggressor can only make things worse. but again, that's just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

or another twist is.... "when a guy confronts you or you otherwise come across someone, don't be a jerk or put yourself in a position where you might have to bash the guys head into the ground and/or punch him in the face because he might shoot you."

I highly doubt this changes the reactions to anybody in a physical confrontation because in the heat of the moment you aren't considering the penalties... you are simply trying to prevent the other person from hurting you further. This verdict won't increase gun violence. Except possibly by 1 if vengeance is carried out against Zimmerman.

Funny.... a hispanic shoots a black guy and a jury of women exonerate him. But it's the white man's fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now the Justice Dept. is looking into the Zimmerman case to see if criminal civil rights charges might apply..

Talking Points Memo | Breaking News and Analysis | TPM

this is what happened in the rodney king case. the police were found "not guilty" in state criminal proceeding, and then prosecuted for federal crimes based on the same incident. i didn't think it was fair then and i don't think it would be fair now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny.... a hispanic shoots a black guy and a jury of women exonerate him. But it's the white man's fault.

That's really the wrong characterization of what people are saying. People have unconscious biases in this country that young black men are criminals, and it affects how they judge people. It affected why Zimmerman got out of his car and chased after someone minding his own business that he had already pre-judged to be a criminal. And it affected the jury's perception of how much of a threat Trayvon was to Zimmerman's life.

The problem with unconscious bias is that you can't prove it in any individual circumstance, so it is easily dismissed with a waive of the hand and accusations that you are "playing the race card." But it shows up in statistics: arrest rates, conviction rates, sentencing durations, etc. It shows up in social science studies. People automatically presume that young black people are violent thugs that are out to kill you. And in this case, that presumption turned out to be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is what happened in the rodney king case. the police were found "not guilty" in state criminal proceeding, and then prosecuted for federal crimes based on the same incident. i didn't think it was fair then and i don't think it would be fair now.

Huh? I guess I didn't care enough about things back then. How is that possible? Because they were representatives of the government? I don't see how a private citizen can be charged like that aftet being acquitted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is what happened in the rodney king case. the police were found "not guilty" in state criminal proceeding, and then prosecuted for federal crimes based on the same incident. i didn't think it was fair then and i don't think it would be fair now.

It seems like this claim would be barred by issue preclusion.

I don't know...the only justice I see here is that Zimmerman wouldn't have lasted more than a few days in prison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like this claim would be barred by issue preclusion.

I don't know...the only justice I see here is that Zimmerman wouldn't have lasted more than a few days in prison.

Why? The jails are full of people who kill black people. Or is that like the N word.... only acceptable when blacks do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huh? I guess I didn't care enough about things back then. How is that possible? Because they were representatives of the government? I don't see how a private citizen can be charged like that aftet being acquitted.

i agree it should be barred by double jeopardy. but it's not because the state and feds are different jurisdictions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, my takeaway from this verdict is: in Florida, civilian A can harass civilian B, on the grounds A finds B to be "suspicious", and if B stands their ground aganst the harassment, A can shoot B dead and A will be exonerated and freed, as long as there are no witnesses.

Do I have that straight?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know enough about the evidence to know whether I agree w/ the decision or not.

However, it seems like we're going to see more fights ending with someone dead now. That doesn't seem like a positive development

+1 on the first part.

I hope not, on the second part.

And on that note I'll go back to following the winter hill gang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's really the wrong characterization of what people are saying. People have unconscious biases in this country that young black men are criminals, and it affects how they judge people. It affected why Zimmerman got out of his car and chased after someone minding his own business that he had already pre-judged to be a criminal. And it affected the jury's perception of how much of a threat Trayvon was to Zimmerman's life.

The problem with unconscious bias is that you can't prove it in any individual circumstance, so it is easily dismissed with a waive of the hand and accusations that you are "playing the race card." But it shows up in statistics: arrest rates, conviction rates, sentencing durations, etc. It shows up in social science studies. People automatically presume that young black people are violent thugs that are out to kill you. And in this case, that presumption turned out to be wrong.

Do you consider yourself free of unconscious bias? Why do you presume to know what the jurors thought?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, my takeaway from this verdict is: in Florida, civilian A can harass civilian B, on the grounds A finds B to be "suspicious", and if B stands their ground aganst the harassment, A can shoot B dead and A will be exonerated and freed, as long as there are no witnesses.

Do I have that straight?

The problem with your summary is that you or anyone else, other than GZ, do not know that this is how it went down. Could easily be twisted to show martin as the aggressor. Zimmerman could have walked away and initial incident over with... then he's attacked from behind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couga mentions unconscious bias........but he has demonstrated conscious bias throughout his comments. How about O'mara's statement about the break ins of Twin Lakes. There was a history of black males involvement. GZ spots an unknown black male walking in the rain in no apparent hurry.......did he profile? Of course he did, it was natural to do so.

When I see a stranger loitering in my neighborhood, I automatically wonder if they are up to no good. I will watch and possibly photograph the individual(s). If you consider this abnormal, I consider you abnormal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

Michigan launched online sports betting and casino apps on Friday, January 22, 2021. We have selected the top Michigan sportsbooks and casinos that offer excellent bonus offers. Terms and conditions apply.

BetRivers Michigan - Get a 100% up to $250 deposit bonus at their online sportsbook & casino.

Click Here to claim $250 deposit bonus at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Now

FanDuel Michigan - Get a $1,000 risk-free bet at FanDuel Michigan on your first bet.

Click Here to claim $1,000 Risk-Free Bet at FanDuel Michigan

BetMGM Michigan - Get a $600 risk-free bet at the BetMGM online casino & sportsbook

Click Here to claim $600 risk-free bet at BetMGM Michigan

   


×
×
  • Create New...