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Melody

Trayvon Martin

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Has anyone else been following this?

Trayvon Martin killing in Florida puts 'Stand Your Ground' law on trial - CSMonitor.com

As you know, I am a strong defender of second amendment rights. But I don't think that getting out of your car, messing with an innocent kid walking down the street armed with skittles and iced tea, assaulting him then when losing the fist fight you initiated, shooting him in cold blood is a second amendment right.

Holy cow. And the police haven't arrested or charged him?

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That is exactly what happened! They released the 911 tapes and you can hear the kid calling for help before he was shot. Police officers who were not present changing or correcting eyewitness statements.

"Self defense" my rear end. If anyone was acting in self defense, it was that kid.

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Zimmerman was expressly told by the 911 operator to wait for the police and not pursue or engage with the "suspect" after calling in his report. Nice work, Charlie Bronson.

Just a sick-making story all around. I hope the Feds move in on this.

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Zimmerman, the "Neighborhood Watch" guy, has a criminal record for...get this...assaulting a police officer.

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wow. so basically a man picks a fight with a kid walking down a sidewalk, gets his *** kicked, shoots the kid, and nobody does anything. Florida justice system FTW!

Probably one of the great accidental disservices that Hollywood has done for us with all its wonderful depictions of heroic lawyering over the years is to make us think we have a reasonably well functioning criminal justice system in this country, when the reality is more often a case like this, or on the other end, the seemingly unending string of cases reversed by the various Innocence Projects now working around the land.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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They haven't arrested this guy yet, have they? .............

and you wonder why riots occur? Hell, I am pissed about this and I am a white guy 2,000 miles away. This bastard, Zimmerman, wanted to play cop.

I believe in the second amendment too - but it shouldn't be the same for everyone. If you have shown in your past that you can't keep your cool (like assaulting a cop) maybe you shouldn't have the same rights everyone else does.

Black kid - wearing a hoodie (in the rain).....yeah, he MUST be guilty.

"I'm tired of these *******s getting away" is what Zimmerman said. Well, I'm tired of it too, George and I am not talking about that kid.

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Honest to God.... how is this guy not arrested and charged with anything??

Seriously. How do Trayvon's family not only deal with having to bury their son, and all the grief and pain that brings, but also seeing the JUSTICE system turning a blind eye to this travesty? I can't imagine the rage and anger.

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My son lives about a block away and is known to walk down here in the evenings to hang with his dad and watch sports on t.v. while his wife is traveling or working late.

If he was walking along and a stranger in an SUV started following him, taking a cut through away from the road is exactly what I'd expect him to do. If the guy jumped out, followed him on foot, and grabbed or attempted to detain him, heck yes I'd expect him to punch, kick and do everything he could to get away from him.

The thing is that young Trayvon did fit the physical profile of some thieves that had been plaguing the complex. It would have been appropriate for a police officer, wearing a uniform, to stop and ask who he was and where he was going.

I would expect my son to cooperate with an officer in a police vehicle and wearing a badge and uniform. I would expect my son to flee from a stranger, no matter what color he was.

This just breaks a mother's heart. Zimmerman may be a good guy, but he did wrong when he failed to heed the instructions from the dispatcher not to get out of his vehicle. He is at least guilty of manslaughter; his actions caused the confrontation to start with. The police did wrong when they blew this off as "self defense," because Trayvon was the one defending himself. He was assaulted, murdered, and his family deserves justice.

Edited by Melody

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.... but he did wrong when he failed to heed the instructions from the dispatcher not to get out of his vehicle. He is at least guilty of manslaughter; his actions caused the confrontation to start with. The police did wrong when they blew this off as "self defense," because Trayvon was the one defending himself. He was assaulted, murdered, and his family deserves justice.

This is the point that frosts me also. At worst at least charge manslaughter or even negligent homicide and let a jury sort it out. In the absence of evidence to refute the assumption (and so far the public facts seem to go in the opposite direction here), it is not an unfair assumption that an elected prosecutor is playing to the politics of a white power base here in so far refusing to even bring a charge.

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This is the point that frosts me also. At worst at least charge manslaughter or even negligent homicide and let a jury sort it out. In the absence of evidence to refute the assumption (and so far the public facts seem to go in the opposite direction here), it is not an unfair assumption that an elected prosecutor is playing to the politics of a white power base here in so far refusing to even bring a charge.

As I understand it, doesn't there have to be a charge from the PD before it goes to a prosecutor? The PD seems to be where the "justice fail" started.

It's a bad play to white power base if that is a factor because as I understand it, the majority of whites are outraged about this as well.

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Without a reference on the report of Zimmie assaulting a police officer; that should prevent him from obtaining a CCW permit in Florida. Something seems to be wrong with the data also.

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As I understand it, doesn't there have to be a charge from the PD before it goes to a prosecutor? T

Interesting question but I don't a police referral is required. I think in most states a prosecutor with probable cause on the basis of their own office's investigation can get a judge to issue a warrant for the police to execute or even enpanel a grand jury if came to it.

Yes and at the very least the Cop that 'changed' the witness report needs to be disciplined.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford PD stated that he does not have evidence to refute Zimmerman's statement so he does not have probable cause to pursue the case. hHe has referred further investigation to the State Attorney. Opposition to Fmlorida's "Stand Your Ground" defense is of course immflamatory, already claiming the legislation has created a "Wild West Atmosphere" in Florida and allows people to kill others outside the home with little consequence. This is misleading due to the small sample size, in fact, the only case locally (central Florida) I can recall.

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Without a reference on the report of Zimmie assaulting a police officer; that should prevent him from obtaining a CCW permit in Florida. Something seems to be wrong with the data also.

Evidently it related to an incident some years previously where he was interfering while the police were attempting to arrest his friend (seems like it was in a bar, but that I'm unsure of) and that charges were reduced to a misdemeanor. Evidently he was legal on the weapon.

Something irksome is that when you go back to the earliest articles about this shooting, they kept mentioning that the kid was on suspension from school ... almost inferring he was a thug. Turns out it was a three day suspension for excessive tardies. (Which punishment I personally find exceedingly dumb and counterproductive.)

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Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford PD stated that he does not have evidence to refute Zimmerman's statement so he does not have probable cause to pursue the case. hHe has referred further investigation to the State Attorney. Opposition to Fmlorida's "Stand Your Ground" defense is of course immflamatory, already claiming the legislation has created a "Wild West Atmosphere" in Florida and allows people to kill others outside the home with little consequence. This is misleading due to the small sample size, in fact, the only case locally (central Florida) I can recall.

It doesn't seem like "stand your ground" is an issue when the person with the gun was the pursuer/aggressor to start with.

We had a castle law case down here a few months ago. Kind of sad, really. Woman at home alone in a recently purchased house while her husband was traveling on business. She heard the doorbell after midnight and called husband. He advised it wasn't him and to get his gun. She called police at that point. Before they arrived, the individual managed to gain access through a rear door, came upstairs into her bedroom. She warned she had a gun, he kept advancing. She shot him dead.

What ended up was that the guy was a professional person from a good family, had gotten drunk and went, invited, to the home of a girl he met in a bar for a booty call. But he got the wrong house and was just too inebriated to respond appropriately to the homeowner.

No charges. A few people were outraged about that but it was mostly the crowd who don't think that we should be allowed to defend ourselves in our own homes.

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I tried to find a direct link to an earlier arrest and found an arrest record as described from 2005 (actually two arrests besides traffic convictions) by a man with the same name. I could not link it to the Zimmerman involved. Both cases were listed as "closed".

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Only marginally related, but re crime and racism, my daughter's store has the #1 apprehension rate in their district year to date. Guess what? Not one was black.

Now, in an area that is predominantly African-American, you might see more black thieves just because that race constitutes most of the customers. A certain percent of any race might be shady. But the stores in the more mixed or white areas that concentrate on watching the black customers miss the thieves.

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Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford PD stated that he does not have evidence to refute Zimmerman's statement so he does not have probable cause to pursue the case. hHe has referred further investigation to the State Attorney. Opposition to Fmlorida's "Stand Your Ground" defense is of course immflamatory, already claiming the legislation has created a "Wild West Atmosphere" in Florida and allows people to kill others outside the home with little consequence. This is misleading due to the small sample size, in fact, the only case locally (central Florida) I can recall.

It would seem from the reports (and granted the gulf between reporting and fact can be large) that both the testimony of the young man walking his dog and the 911 tape refute at least parts of Zimmerman's statement - those wrt who was at whose mercy.

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Given the loosening of CCW laws and the idea that people now have better cover to shoot others outside the home because of the nebulous concept of "standing your ground", I'm not sure what else anyone would have expected to happen. If nothing else happens -- if the guy remains free because of the letter of the law, and the letter of the law remains intact -- it's only a matter of time, and probably not much time, before it happens again.

Let's see what happens when a black man armed with a CCW shoots a white kid under the same pretense. That should be entertaining to watch unfold.

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This is beyond Bernie Goetz-level of dubious "self-defense" justifications-- at least one of those guys was armed and they were attempting to rob him. Martin armed with Skittles.

Seems like this kid got murdered mainly for wounding the ego of an aspiring Charles Bronson.

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I wonder if this sort of "Lord of the Flies"-style policing (minus the murder, obviously) is common in gated communities. I know that the local PD is often quite limited in their ability to even drive into these areas without first receiving a call. Seems like there's a lot of potential for loose cannons to blow someone away in these places where you have carte blanche to be armed. Say what you will about the competence of police officers, but there's something to be said for training, discipline, de-escalation techniques, and other standard practices of good police work.

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Say what you will about the competence of police officers, but there's something to be said for training, discipline, de-escalation techniques, and other standard practices of good police work.

I agree 100%.

We have a COP program here where volunteers drive around neighborhoods and report on unusual activities. But this is very formal. They have to make application and undergo a background check. They are given specific training on what they can and can not do. They have jackets which identify them and magnetic labels which identify their cars. They have a specific number to call to report unusual observations or activity.

And under absolutely no circumstances are they permitted to engage or investigate. Never. In fact, around here, most of them are retired. My 70 yo uncle participates.

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