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Current tiger most likely to get a comerica statue?


Uncle sam
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Which current tiger has the best chance?  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. Which current tiger has the best chance?

    • Miguel Cabrera
      37
    • Justin Verlander
      19
    • Brandon Inge
      6
    • Magglio Ordonez
      2
    • Other ( Please post name in thread )
      6


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Lee, instead of Willie Horton would you have a statue of an usher telling a black kid he couldn't sit in those seats.

I kid, but only to emphasize that the Horton legend of helping quell the rioters in his uniform is an important cultural totem for the city.

I know what he did, but if we are defining legends by their actions off the field, then Cobb was certainly not a legend. At least not a good one. I don't know that Gehringer and Newhouser did anything special off the field either. What makes those guys more legendary than Whitaker and Trammell?

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I realize Horton did a lot in the community, but I don't think he can be considered a baseball legend like Cobb or Greenberg. Some might consider Inge a legend too. I don't think Horton is any more of a legend to most fans than Whitaker and Trammell.

Lee;

I guess I don't know your personal history and whether you lived in Detroit in the 60's, but to me, the one thing that really stands out and makes Willie one of most special tigers of all time is the overlay of the race relations issues when he played. Willie was under tremendous pressure during the early years of his tiger career. Not the kind of pioneering pressure someone like Robinson faced by any means, but still a huge extra burden given the race history of the tigers, the increasing militancy of the 60's, and the horrible Detroit legacy created by the race riots both in '68 and barely a generation earlier in '43. Willie's ultimate grace through his own struggles to place himself in some kind of context as maybe the first young black star to have come up through the tiger system (unlike the players on that team such as Earl Wilson, who were older and had come from less problematic organizations). For a lot of us, Willie was and remains a hero for a lot more than his conduct on the field.

So I can't think of any more appropriate person to be honored in Detroit and at COPA, even if he was not a HOF performance player on the field.

Edited by Gehringer_2
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Not sure what you mean by "the deal". What I don't understand is why it took so long for him to get elected to the HOF.

94 years of MLB have been played since Crawford retired and he still ranks in the top 100 all time in nearly every offensive category, including 1st in triples, 29th in hits and 53rd in total bases. An exception is home runs, but he was regarded as one of the top power hitters of the dead ball era.

Ty Cobb pushed for years to get Crawford into the HOF, which I think is meaningful since they reportedly had a bitter rivalry as players. Quotes from his contemporaries leave no doubt that Crawford was one of the very best players of his era. He's not on par with someone the level of Cobb, but his case is stronger than guys like Trammell and Whitaker, IMO.

Crawford, Sam | Baseball Hall of Fame

Sam Crawford Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Crawford%20Sam%20Plaque%2015_NBL_0.png

I know all about Sam Crawford. "The deal" I was referring to is not giving him a statue, as in, "What's the deal with not giving Sam Crawford a statue?"

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Lee;

I guess I don't know your personal history and whether you lived in Detroit in the 60's, but to me, the one thing that really stands out and makes Willie one of most special tigers of all time is the overlay of the race relations issues when he played. Willie was under tremendous pressure during the early years of his tiger career. Not the kind of pioneering pressure someone like Robinson faced by any means, but still a huge extra burden given the race history of the tigers, the increasing militancy of the 60's, and the horrible Detroit legacy created by the race riots both in '68 and barely a generation earlier in '43. Willie's ultimate grace through his own struggles to place himself in some kind of context as maybe the first young black star to have come up through the tiger system (unlike the players on that team such as Earl Wilson, who were older and had come from less problematic organizations). For a lot of us, Willie was and remains a hero for a lot more than his conduct on the field.

So I can't think of any more appropriate person to be honored in Detroit and at COPA, even if he was not a HOF performance player on the field.

I'm not from Detroit, but I've heard Horton's story many times and it's a great story. If fans think Horton's a legend, then I guess he's a legend. I just don't hear Tigers fans talking about Horton that often, so I'm unsure of how broad his appeal still is. The only time I usually hear people mention Horton is when the statute gets discussed. And when we do have that discussion, there is usually disagreement among Detroit natives as to whether he deserves a statue or not. Harwell has a statue too and he never played a game, so it's certainly not all about what they did on the field.

Watkins said that Whitaker and Trammell don't deserve a statue because they are not legends. Why aren't they legends? What did Newhouser do that was so special? There are several Tigers who were better than him on the field and I don't know that he did anything special off the field.

Edited by tiger337
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I'm not from Detroit, but I've heard Horton's story many times and it's a great story. If fans think Horton's a legend, then I guess he's a legend. I just don't hear Tigers fans talking about Horton that often, so I'm unsure of how broad his appeal still is. The only time I usually hear people mention Horton is when the statute gets discussed. And when we do have that discussion, there is usually disagreement among Detroit natives as to whether he deserves a statue or not. Harwell has a statue too and he never played a game, so it's certainly not all about what they did on the field.

Watkins said that Whitaker and Trammell don't deserve a statue because they are not legends. Why aren't they legends? What did Newhouser do that was so special? There are several Tigers who were better than him on the field and I don't know that he did anything special off the field.

You ask fair questions. I don't know that there are hard answers. As far as I ever understood, the initial idea was that the HOF - as a tiger - was the basic criteria for a statue (thus Newhouser and Harwell). It was to be sort of Detroit's take on doing the Yankee monuments. But from the beginning Mr I ignored his own rule for Horton, I assume primarily for reasons along the lines already noted. I have heard him talk about how much he believes Horton's life and story meant to the city in those years.

As to why you don't hear fans don't talk about him, I don't know. I know when I and my friends of that era reminisce about the tigers, his name usually comes up. I would guess that aside from the 40 years that have passed, it's also exactly because although Willie was a leader and the most feared hitter in the Tiger lineup in his day, he didn't leave behind HOF or especially near HOF numbers to debate as did a Freehan or Lolich. Nor did he maintain a high public profile role that made him known into another generation as did Kaline and Northrup by broadcasting, Freehan by coaching the UM team for several years, or even McLain by bouncing on and off the radio and in to and out of jail. :ponder:

But as noted, since many of us between my age and Mr I's age (and up), value Horton the man as much as Horton the ballplayer, that affection is not necessarily the correlate of baseball discussion, but I can only speculate.

Edited by Gehringer_2
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Kell actually played slightly less than half his years and games with the Tigers, but his most productive time was in Detroit. The fact he went into the HOF as a Tiger is a great point, plus his long Tiger broadcasting career win me over for a statue. Agreed on Lolich being under appreciated - I don't really understand the reason for that. Regarding the strikeouts, if memory serves, when he retired he was the career leader in K's by a LHP.

But he spent the other half split amongst 4 other teams, so the Majority of his games by team were with the Tigs is all I was saying.

If Kell gets a statue for his broadcasting then Heilmann should get one first. He had a much better Tigers career than Kell and was a popular broadcaster for 16 years. His career as a Tiger spanned five decades.

Lee, I would tend to agree. I wasn't arguing aginst Hielman, just for Kell. Growing up in Northern MI where radio signals weren't always reliable, Kaline and Kell were the voices of the tigers for me.

And I forgot to quote it, but anyone who says Tram and Lou are not legends in Detroit hasn't been here long enough.

For proof, go here:

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If memory serves..... I think it's the same guy who does all these statues, even in other cities. So the fact that we don't have others might not necessarily be intentional, they could be in the works. Just a matter of time.

What if Morris makes the HOF? I don't think he will but I'd say he's got about a 10% shot in the next few years before he's off the ballot.

I would put Verlander slightly ahead of Cabrera in terms of current Tigers. The reason being that he'll be 31 when his contract expires and Cabrera will be 32. I could see Cabrera getting another big 4-5 year deal and hopefully the Tigers will have the depth to not need his production at 1B/DH and will isntead use their resources elsewhere, like on Verlander!

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I would put Verlander slightly ahead of Cabrera in terms of current Tigers. The reason being that he'll be 31 when his contract expires and Cabrera will be 32. I could see Cabrera getting another big 4-5 year deal and hopefully the Tigers will have the depth to not need his production at 1B/DH and will isntead use their resources elsewhere, like on Verlander!

See, I lean towards Cabrera. Verlander will consistently be a top 5 pitcher in the AL for a while. Cabrera is probably the absolute best, and I think has a pretty good shot of doing it for even longer. Hard to say though. He also started much younger than Verlander and is more likely to reach the HOF, which isn't a lock to get his number retired but it helps.

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I'm assuming both will make the HOF. Verlander started out at age 23 in his first full season and has made 30 starts every year since. I think he's laying the foundation for a career that the HOF likes. He gets the strikeouts, he is very durable, he has the ROY award.

No doubt that Cabrera's peak will/is higher than Verlander. Heck, give them both one. I'd love it if both ended a long productive career as Tigers.

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I'm assuming both will make the HOF. Verlander started out at age 23 in his first full season and has made 30 starts every year since. I think he's laying the foundation for a career that the HOF likes. He gets the strikeouts, he is very durable, he has the ROY award.

No doubt that Cabrera's peak will/is higher than Verlander. Heck, give them both one. I'd love it if both ended a long productive career as Tigers.

Very good points. It'll be interesting to revisit this in another 5 or 10 years.

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If any further statues are placed out there there will less room for douchers with those long skinny drinks, wearing Maltby jerseys and some sort of tribal tattoo.

I happen to have a very cool black and white framed photo of the statuary taken in mid-winter. Its a wonderful thing as is but I do think we need some reps from the '84 team and hopefully another WS winner in the near future.

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I'm assuming both will make the HOF. Verlander started out at age 23 in his first full season and has made 30 starts every year since. I think he's laying the foundation for a career that the HOF likes. He gets the strikeouts, he is very durable, he has the ROY award.

No doubt that Cabrera's peak will/is higher than Verlander. Heck, give them both one. I'd love it if both ended a long productive career as Tigers.

Verlander needs a WS or Cy young or both though and at least 3 or 4 more seasons as good or better than 09/last season to get there. I think he has a really good shot at that. In 7 years he'll be 34. Verlander strikes me as one of those guys who at 34(barring injury) will still be at the end of his prime rather than already out of his prime.

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