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downinthezone

Beltre, Tigers 2011 3B? the possibility is there

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I've seen a couple of grounders I thought Miggy could have gotten to that he didn't go after, and they didn't make the out. He may have had trouble recalibrating his sense of things after Polanco was replaced with inferior defenders.

With the perfect game, whether or not he should have let the ball go, he did make that play. He was not the problem.

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Since there a few good 3b prospects in the system (other than Castellanos), I don't see why the Tigers can offer Beltre a 3 year deal. Inge can go back to being a super-sub which is where he was best.

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The differences between Cabrera covering 1B and letting Guillen make that play and the way it went down

(i) Cabrera is moving right to field and has to throw back to his left, whereas if you watch the various replays (from official footage and from fans) Carlos is taking a perfect line to make the play and then make the throw to 1B/Cabrera in stride.

(ii) Cabrera has to wait a few beats for Galaragga to make it to the bag at 1B from the mound before he can make the throw, whereas if Carlos makes the play Cabrera's camped out at 1B waiting for the throw.

Umpires also mentioned that because Cabrera cuts the ball off perpendicular to the bag and is throwing to the pitcher coming from the mound vs Carlos making the play a few steps further back and throwing to a stretched Cabrera, the spot where the ump sets up to view the catch and runner simultaneously in the normal 4-3 put out has an obscured view when that 4-3 becomes a 3-1. [not an excuse for anything]

It's an issue with Cabrera's defense that the play highlighted and then happened again and again throughout the season. Other than that play, the Tigers 2010 campaign was meaningless, so it didn't matter. But who knows when the Tigers end up in another meaningful game 161-163 and Cabrera goes to field an otherwise routine grounder to the 2B and the pitcher doesn't get over in time--hopefully Tiger pitchers are aware of Cabrera's tendencies and always break for the 1B bag on balls hit to the right side, but you could see a reliever or any pitcher either staying put at the mound or breaking behind the bag to back up the throw to 1B, when they need to book it to the bag as fast as they can.

If you're defeating the expectations of the umpiring crew, you might also be working against the expectations of your teammates as to how that kind of routine groundball to 2B is going to be handled.

It was a freaking 3-1 blown call, not the Zapruder Film.

A pitcher should always break to first base on a ball hit to his left, no matter who is playing first.

Joyce was in the wrong spot no matter where the ball was hit. He needed to be 90 degrees to the play. He had plenty of time to get there and he stayed put. If he's 90 degrees to the play, he sees the separation of Donald's foot and the base. There is no discernable difference in the position of a first-base umpire on any infield play, anyway. And as for the expectations of the crew, you don't have any. Expectations are your enemy and they lead to missed and blown calls like that one.

Edited by byco42

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With one out to go in a perfect game, it would be nearly impossible not to let your most basic instincts take hold. Yeah he should have let that grounder go to Guillen, but no way could I ever fault Miguel for "wanting the ball" in that situation.

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..

A pitcher should always break to first base on a ball hit to his left, no matter who is playing first.

....

While AG did get to 1st on this play, I think it is exactly true that many of the plays Cabby was criticized for last yr broke down not because he fielded the ball, but because Tiger pitchers in general are not well drilled in getting their butts going to 1st base. Heaven forbid some of these guys ever get traded to the Cards and have to cover 1st with Pujols fielding his position!

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Sure, it could have turned out different for any number of reasons. I'm just sort of on guard against the implication that some have drawn that somehow it was Cabby's fault for having made a perfectly good play.

If Cabrera had any defensive awareness at all, he goes to the bag and the guy's out by 2 steps and it's a perfect game.

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Also, did Beltre sign yet? :classic:

He rejected the Angels 5/70 offer and it was reported the Angels are refusing to increase it.

LA area radio reporting that the Angels have dropped out of the Beltre negotiations after having their offer rejected by Boras/Beltre.

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With one out to go in a perfect game, it would be nearly impossible not to let your most basic instincts take hold. Yeah he should have let that grounder go to Guillen, but no way could I ever fault Miguel for "wanting the ball" in that situation.

And lets remember that when he came back to 2b, the question everyone kept asking was...."Why does Carlos play 2b with no one on so close to the bag......?"

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If Cabrera had any defensive awareness at all, he goes to the bag and the guy's out by 2 steps and it's a perfect game.

If AG strikes the guy out, this never happens. He can only blame himself.

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Carlos Guillen shades way up the middle and is a terrible defensive player, I agree that in a normal world that was a bad play by Cabrera, but given the Guillen factor I'd blame Jim Leyland for not using a defensive replacement at 2nd base more than Cabrera

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He rejected the Angels 5/70 offer and it was reported the Angels are refusing to increase it.
You missed my poor yet subtle attempt at picking on people for going off-topic, lol.

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Carlos Guillen shades way up the middle and is a terrible defensive player, I agree that in a normal world that was a bad play by Cabrera, but given the Guillen factor I'd blame Jim Leyland for not using a defensive replacement at 2nd base more than Cabrera

I think it's only 75/25 that Guillen makes the play. It wasn't hit hard, but he had so far to run that he would have had to field it full stride and make a clean exchange to pull it off. Of course then AG would still have had the no-hitter. But probably not a new car.

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With one out to go in a perfect game, it would be nearly impossible not to let your most basic instincts take hold. Yeah he should have let that grounder go to Guillen, but no way could I ever fault Miguel for "wanting the ball" in that situation.

I agree that in that situation you can't really fault Cabrera for wanting the ball, but then he continued to play that way, ranging almost to the bag at 2B some plays (like a dog who can't help but chase the ball), for the rest of the season--and no doubt was playing that way previously, but that play highlighted it.

Course, it didn't mean diddly-squat because the Tigers 2010 season was one big ball of nothingness. But it's something that could come back to bite the Tigers in the behind in the future--if/when they play meaningful baseball again (sometime after the 2012 season at this point)--if he continues to play that way.

Edited by downinthezone

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You missed my poor yet subtle attempt at picking on people for going off-topic, lol.

It is too bad the forum SW doesn't do multilevel threading more gracefully. A little diversion like that would just sit in it's own space and detract less from the main thread. C'est la vie....

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Robin Yount shifted from Short to Center after being in the league for almost ten years. Molitor was initially a middle infielder for the Crew before shifting to third.

Greenberg moved from first to LF to make way for Rudy York.

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Damn. Must be going to the White Sux.

"White Sux"? What, are you in seventh grade? :wink::laugh:

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"White Sux"? What, are you in seventh grade? :wink::laugh:
I'm sorry, let me re-word that: The American League franchise from Chicago, of which most of their players, fan base, management, broadcasters, and possibly the bat boy, suck. :pirate:

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I'm sorry, let me re-word that: The American League franchise from Chicago, of which most of their players, fan base, management, broadcasters, and possibly the bat boy, suck. :pirate:

OHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Thanks alot for clearing that up, buddy!!

Sheesh.......

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This Beltre situation could get very interesting before all said is done. You know Boras does not want to come out of this looking bad but I don't see him having a lot of options if the rumors are true about LA pulling out.

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I'm sorry, let me re-word that: The American League franchise from Chicago, of which most of their players, fan base, management, broadcasters, and possibly the bat boy, suck. :pirate:

I laughed a little when I saw this. No, wait ... I'm sorry, I meant I puked a little when I saw this.

:wink:

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