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Iverson needs more than a prayer

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John "disposable players" Thompson is probably not who I would choose to help. If Iverson can't help him anymore, I don't think he cares too much. I'm also not real happy about Stephen A Smith blathering about this publically, Smith's career is pretty much built on his supposed close relationship with Iverson. Seems to me he's selling Iverson down the river with this and was never really much of a friend to Iverson, yet another betrayal.

Building off of this, I don't even see why John Thompson or Pat Croce are being thrown under the bus in this article. Typically family members or close personal friends are the ones who tend to step in and address a problem like this, if anyone. Are John Thompson or Pat Croce close personal friends of Iverson? I don't know, but I tend to doubt it.

Also, if Steven A. Smith cares so much about Allen, and is disappointed no one has addressed this, why isn't he the one stepping up and getting Allen help quietly rather than writing an article about it?

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Dude was a such a bad *** in his prime...probably amongst the 10 most exciting players to watch in NBA history...maybe even to 3.

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Can we stop using Thugs as a euphemism for the N-word in society? It's so obvious what the connotation is, just say what you're thinking. No one is fooled by it.

I've known some white thugs. Haven't we all?

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Dude was a such a bad *** in his prime...probably amongst the 10 most exciting players to watch in NBA history...maybe even to 3.

He was. I mean damn, the guy was voted an all-star THIS year...even though he has done nothing of value in quite some time. That tells you his star appeal and how big he was at one point.

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My prayer is that Allen will recognize he's been too prideful.

Without humility and introspective - which he so far has not displayed - he will utterly destroy everything that has been good in his life.

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Can we stop using Thugs as a euphemism for the N-word in society? It's so obvious what the connotation is, just say what you're thinking. No one is fooled by it.

How about these for euphemisms, sociopath, jerk, lowlife...Iverson is a bad person. I saw nightly how he treated dealers and cocktail servers black and white at the casino, if he wants to drink and gamble himself to death Ben Sanderson style, I say have fun. Simmons keeps alluding to AI 30 for 30 painting him in a different light. He is an affable guy with sympathetic story but he has also been blessed with blessed with the talent to make millions playing a game he loves. There are plenty of guys who come from similar backgrounds who know how to treat people. I look at a guy like Jalen Rose who started off a brash, self-centered kid with a rough background who has matured into a responsible citizen. If the documentary tries to paint Iverson as a good guy, it's fiction.

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It is kind of ironic that Stephen A. Smith was supposed to be his friend all these years and then he writes this article outing him. A person who has a gambling and drinking problem and is going through a divorce and might lose his kids, does not need a national story made out about this. That is just a recipe for disaster and Smith sold him out to get publicity. I hope AI gets the help he needs but I don't know why Smith has to parade around ESPN with this story and publicize it everywhere. He claims his intention was to bring this to light as to help AI. But, its likely that Iverson's friends and family are already aware of the trouble he's in. Sometimes hitting rock bottom helps people wake up and see reality. But, AI's wife leaving him is rock bottom. This article and making his personal problems a national story is just overkill.

Edited by Scottwood

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It is kind of ironic that Stephen A. Smith was supposed to be his friend all these years and then he writes this article outing him. A person who has a gambling and drinking problem and is going through a divorce and might lose his kids, does not need a national story made out about this. That is just a recipe for disaster and Smith sold him out to get publicity. I hope AI gets the help he needs but I don't know why Smith has to parade around ESPN with this story and publicize it everywhere. He claims his intention was to bring this to light as to help AI. But, its likely that Iverson's friends and family are already aware of the trouble he's in. Sometimes hitting rock bottom helps people wake up and see reality. But, AI's wife leaving him is rock bottom. This article and making his personal problems a national story is just overkill.

Smith is unbelievably annoying. And you are right, if he cared about AI he wouldn't have written this article and instead talked to him himself.

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It is kind of ironic that Stephen A. Smith was supposed to be his friend all these years and then he writes this article outing him. A person who has a gambling and drinking problem and is going through a divorce and might lose his kids, does not need a national story made out about this. That is just a recipe for disaster and Smith sold him out to get publicity. I hope AI gets the help he needs but I don't know why Smith has to parade around ESPN with this story and publicize it everywhere. He claims his intention was to bring this to light as to help AI. But, its likely that Iverson's friends and family are already aware of the trouble he's in. Sometimes hitting rock bottom helps people wake up and see reality. But, AI's wife leaving him is rock bottom. This article and making his personal problems a national story is just overkill.

Some giant assumptions have been made in this post. AI's business manager is named as a source for the story and his quote is "Pray". That's how bad things have gotten at the moment. I think its safe to assume that many, many attempts have been made privately by people close to him. This reeks of a last ditch attempt to get through to a very stubborn person still in denial. Drastic actions are required when someone has just been fired, divorced, is dealing with a child illness and still isn't interested in facing his demons. I'd hasten this was probably one of the hardest articles that Smith has ever had to write. He should be lauded for having the balls to do it when many around Iverson have placated him for years. The fact is rock bottom for many people is death. There's no overkill when trying to avoid it.

Edited by Hongbit

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Some giant assumptions have been made in this post. AI's business manager is named as a source for the story and his quote is "Pray". That's how bad things have gotten at the moment. I think its safe to assume that many, many attempts have been made privately by people close to him. This reeks of a last ditch attempt to get through to a very stubborn person still in denial. Drastic actions are required when someone has just been fired, divorced, is dealing with a child illness and still isn't interested in facing his demons. I'd hasten this was probably one of the hardest articles that Smith has ever had to write. He should be lauded for having the balls to do it when many around Iverson have placated him for years. The fact is rock bottom for many people is death. There's no overkill when trying to avoid it.

I'd suggest there are an awful lot of assumptions in this post as well.

For me, I personally don't see or get how this article would make AI see the light, and it seems to me just as likely that this is Steven's attempt to get one more attention getting article out of AI as a subject.

Whatever the case, I don't think S.A.S. should be lauded, nor do I really think this article took balls to write. Just my opinions / sense of it, which obviously are at odds with yours.

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I'd suggest there are an awful lot of assumptions in this post as well.

For me, I personally don't see or get how this article would make AI see the light, and it seems to me just as likely that this is Steven's attempt to get one more attention getting article out of AI as a subject.

Whatever the case, I don't think S.A.S. should be lauded, nor do I really think this article took balls to write. Just my opinions / sense of it, which obviously are at odds with yours.

Based on what? The basis for my post were the comments by AI's business manager. That's a trusted source. I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that this is just a Steven A. Smith attempt at publicity.

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Some giant assumptions have been made in this post. AI's business manager is named as a source for the story and his quote is "Pray". That's how bad things have gotten at the moment. I think its safe to assume that many, many attempts have been made privately by people close to him. This reeks of a last ditch attempt to get through to a very stubborn person still in denial. Drastic actions are required when someone has just been fired, divorced, is dealing with a child illness and still isn't interested in facing his demons. I'd hasten this was probably one of the hardest articles that Smith has ever had to write. He should be lauded for having the balls to do it when many around Iverson have placated him for years. The fact is rock bottom for many people is death. There's no overkill when trying to avoid it.

He did say, "Pray." But, he was not among the sources that Smith cited when talking about his alcohol and gambling problems. Smith tied that remark from his business manager into what other NBA sources told him about Iverson's personal troubles with alcohol and gambling and ran with it. For all we know, that quote could have been taken out of context and the business manager could have been talking about the effect the divorce would have on AI and not been talking about his drinking or gambling. Smith even said that Moore did not admit that Iverson had a serious problem with alcohol or gambling. He then called out Pat Croce and John Thompson and painted an extremely dire picture of Iverson. I fail to see the heroism in this article by Smith. If we assumed that AI's personal friends and family can't reach him, then how is this now becoming a national story and him being hounded with questions by reporters and TV cameras going to help the situation? Maybe it will and hopefully it does. But, I would never go as far to say that Smith should be lauded for writing the article. Far from it.

Edited by Scottwood

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He did say, "Pray." But, he was not among the sources that Smith cited when talking about his alcohol and gambling problems. Smith tied that remark from his business manager into what other NBA sources told him about Iverson's personal troubles with alcohol and gambling and ran with it. For all we know, that quote could have been taken out of context and the business manager could have been talking about the effect the divorce would have on AI and not been talking about his drinking or gambling. Smith even said that Moore did not admit that Iverson had a serious problem with alcohol or gambling. He then called out Pat Croce and John Thompson and painted an extremely dire picture of Iverson. I fail to see the heroism in this article by Smith. If we assumed that AI's personal friends and family can't reach him, then how is this now becoming a national story and him being hounded with questions by reporters and TV cameras going to help the situation? Maybe it will and hopefully it does. But, I would never go as far to say that Smith should be lauded for writing the article. Far from it.

Are you saying the business manager is referring to something other than the alcohol and gambling problems? What does he want us to pray for then? I'm getting all of my information from this thread. Do you have a link to some of what that you've mentioned. What about the John Chaney quotes? Is he in on the publicity stunt to draw attention for himself, too?

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Are you saying the business manager is referring to something other than the alcohol and gambling problems? What does he want us to pray for then?

He might be. He might not be. I don't know. He never admitted there was a problem, though. And, that is a weak direct quote. A one word sentence with no real context provided. All it says is that he wants people to pray for Iverson. That could be taken a lot of ways, and it mentions in the article how close he was to his wife. He may have just meant that he wants people to pray so Iverson can get through this tough time in his life and deal with the breakup. Again, I don't know. But, if he was talking about his gambling and alcohol problems and wanted this to get out to the public then one would think that he would have admitted AI had a problem and been more direct. Are you suggesting that his business manager wanted Smith to write this article?

Do you have a link to some of what that you've mentioned.

I'm not sure what this is asking. Everything I wrote was taken from the original article.

What about the John Chaney quotes? Is he in on the publicity stunt to draw attention for himself, too?

Frankly, I have no idea why Chaney is in the article or what connection he has to Iverson. Maybe someone could help me out with that.

Edited by Scottwood

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He was 17 years old. The conviction was overturned due to insufficient evidence.

17 year olds often do stupid things...I don't think it is fair to hold that over someone's head forever.

If you cant judge right and wrong at the age of 17, then you're a hopeless idiot. If a 6 year old throws a chair across the room, he dosent know better. A 17 year old does, or should.

And you say he changed the image of the NBA, perhaps thats why a lot of people have soured on the NBA. Clowns like AI, Gilbert Arenas, Ron Artest. Vary hard to cheer for those guys.

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Can we stop using Thugs as a euphemism for the N-word in society? It's so obvious what the connotation is, just say what you're thinking. No one is fooled by it.

People have to be politically correct or the world will implode (and banned from here). I have to agree somewhat as you don't hear a whole lot of white guys called thugs unless it's a hockey player for some reason.

Iverson needs to wake up before it's too late. Years of getting his way has probably doomed him. At some point it will hit him but what will it take?

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A thug is a violent person, usually a criminal. Other substitute words include gangster, hoodlum, villain, and goon (among others).

In what way is it a euphemism for an unspeakable derogatory word?

There are folks in Haiti who's reaction to a serious and desperate dilemna, would be considered "thugs"; are they?....Or does a desperate environment demand desperate measures?....

Try this: a 25 year-old Roseville man without a degree can expect to be hired as a staff painter, staff landscaper, member of a small construction firm, Belle Tire....and other gigs that a young man would enjoy....

...A 25 year-old Detroit man without a degree is lucky if he's hired to flip burgers at McDonalds, or as a shopping cart collector at Sam's Club. You know why?: he's not "connected" with those who are able to empower him.

...Point being: there are many factors as to why this "thug mentality" exist, among young black men. A more even playing field would possible help.

(I apologize to anyone questioning why I went down that road...)

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There are folks in Haiti who's reaction to a serious and desperate dilemna, would be considered "thugs"; are they?....Or does a desperate environment demand desperate measures?....

Try this: a 25 year-old Roseville man without a degree can expect to be hired as a staff painter, staff landscaper, member of a small construction firm, Belle Tire....and other gigs that a young man would enjoy....

...A 25 year-old Detroit man without a degree is lucky if he's hired to flip burgers at McDonalds, or as a shopping cart collector at Sam's Club. You know why?: he's not "connected" with those who are able to empower him.

...Point being: there are many factors as to why this "thug mentality" exist, among young black men. A more even playing field would possible help.

(I apologize to anyone questioning why I went down that road...)

I would suggest this is oversimplified view of the world.

That stated, the world isn't a fair place and double standards exist. This is unfortunate, we should try to resolve them, but I don't understand what it has to do Allen Iverson's situation today.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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There are folks in Haiti who's reaction to a serious and desperate dilemna, would be considered "thugs"; are they?....Or does a desperate environment demand desperate measures?....

Try this: a 25 year-old Roseville man without a degree can expect to be hired as a staff painter, staff landscaper, member of a small construction firm, Belle Tire....and other gigs that a young man would enjoy....

...A 25 year-old Detroit man without a degree is lucky if he's hired to flip burgers at McDonalds, or as a shopping cart collector at Sam's Club. You know why?: he's not "connected" with those who are able to empower him.

...Point being: there are many factors as to why this "thug mentality" exist, among young black men. A more even playing field would possible help.

(I apologize to anyone questioning why I went down that road...)

Adversity doesn't create character. It reveals your character.

Certainly, many have it much worse than others. Heck, just living in the US and having a job means I have it better than about 90% of the world's population. Certainly, it would be great if everyone was given an equal start. But being born here or there doesn't make it morally a better decision to reveal poor character decisions.

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Adversity doesn't create character. It reveals your character.

Certainly, many have it much worse than others. Heck, just living in the US and having a job means I have it better than about 90% of the world's population. Certainly, it would be great if everyone was given an equal start. But being born here or there doesn't make it morally a better decision to reveal poor character decisions.

I think you are not understanding what Dale is saying (sorry if I am the wrong one Dale).

An example for what I think Dale is saying: as a high schooler I did not walk away from many fights. The reason? If I did, that would be my fate in school- the guy who you can steal from, rob, whatever and he will walk away. So I fought.

Even if I didn't want to, even if it was not my goal or desire..I was forced into it by situation. Situation forced me into it because that was just about all I could do if I wanted to keep face in the neighborhood.

Now, this is not to say AI's situation is one we should excuse...or that we should excuse anyone making poor choices. But understanding WHY they make those poor choices is a little important if you ask me.

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How many fights did MLK jr walk away from?

If we were all MLK the world wouldn't be the way it is right now. But people like him are few and far between.

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And it's happened folks...the very first time Allen Iverson has been compared with Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. Someone get out the time capsule.

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Can we stop using Thugs as a euphemism for the N-word in society? It's so obvious what the connotation is, just say what you're thinking. No one is fooled by it.

The word Thug originated in British India. The Thugee were Kali worshippers who preyed on travelers for sacrificial killings for their goddess.

Watch the movie Gunga Din for a primer.

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