Jump to content

Michigan football program broke rules, players say


SpartanValor
 Share

Recommended Posts

The University of Michigan football team consistently has violated NCAA rules governing off-season workouts, in-season demands on players and mandatory summer activities under coach Rich Rodriguez, numerous players told the Free Press.

Players on the 2008 and 2009 teams described training and practice sessions that far exceeded limits set by the NCAA, which governs college athletics. The restrictions are designed to protect players’ well-being, ensure adequate study time and prevent schools from gaining an unfair competitive advantage.

The players, who did not want to be identified because they feared repercussions from coaches, said the violations occurred routinely at the direction of Rodriguez’s staff.

“It’s one of those things where you can’t say something,” one current Wolverine said. “If you say something, they’re going to say you’re a lazy person and don’t want to work hard.”

That player was one of six current or former players who gave lengthy, detailed and nearly identical descriptions of the program to the Free Press.

If the NCAA investigates and concludes that U-M willfully and repeatedly broke the rules, the NCAA could find major violations. That could trigger probation, loss of scholarships and loss of practice time.

Michigan, which has won more games than any program in college football history, has never been found guilty of major violations in football.

The players say they routinely are required to work out or practice many more hours throughout the year than the NCAA allows. They also say members of Rodriguez’s staff have broken rules by monitoring off-season scrimmages.

Michigan football program broke rules, players say | Detroit Free Press | Freep.com

In addition, the players cited these practices within the program:

• Players spent at least nine hours on football activities on Sundays after games last fall. NCAA rules mandate a daily 4-hour limit. The Wolverines also exceeded the weekly limit of 20 hours, the athletes said.

• Players said members of Rodriguez’s quality-control staff often watched seven-on-seven off-season scrimmages. The noncontact drills, in which an offense runs plays against a defense, are supposed to be voluntary and player-run. They are held at U-M’s football facilities. NCAA rules allow only training staff — not quality-control staffers — to attend as a safety precaution. Quality-control staffers provide administrative and other support for the coaches but are not allowed to interact directly with players during games, practices or workouts.

If the NCAA investigates and concludes that U-M willfully and repeatedly violated the rules, the NCAA could find the football program guilty of major violations for the first time in the football program’s history.

For this report, the Free Press interviewed 10 current or former players and the parents of four others. In separate interviews, five players gave almost identical accounts of how the program is run, and a sixth player confirmed most of the descriptions. Other players, as well as parents of additional players, discussed the conditions in general. Several players declined to be interviewed at length but did not dispute the allegations when asked specifically about them.

One veteran player said the Wolverines talk to each other about the excessive hours under Rodriguez “all the time, but there is nothing we can do about it.”

...

“They were making us sign those — you’d get in trouble if you didn’t sign,” one player on the 2008 team said. “We signed that and joked about that: ‘We work out way more than this.’ We can’t do anything. We were trying to play.”

And someone puts his name behind it:

In September 2008, three weeks into Rodriguez’s first season, senior defensive tackle Terrance Taylor talked about his previous Sunday.

“It was, like, 10 hours,” Taylor said. “Everybody was like, ‘Where were you at?’ ‘I was at practice all day.’ My parents were still here. They were like, ‘Where were you at?’ I was like, ‘I was at the building all day.’ ”

The NCAA limit is 4 hours a day for required activities.

A look inside Rodriguez’s rigorous football program | Detroit Free Press | Freep.com

I'm guessing the Freep planned on unleashing this in their Sunday edition.

No one wants to hear my take, but:

1). What an awkward lockerroom this just became.

2). Knowing the NCAA, they will ignore USC financing downtown condos, but find a way to punish M.

3). This must be why Mike Barwis is a world beater.

4). It almost makes me wonder if RR is trying to F things up. He must be getting paid by Jim Harbaugh. He is like the gift that keeps on giving right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BetMGM Michigan $600 Risk-Free bet

BetMGM Michigan Sports Betting
Michigan online sports betting is now available! Start betting at BetMGM Michigan now and get a $600 risk-free bet bonus at their online sportsbook & casino.

Claim $600 risk-free bet at BetMGM Michigan Now

  • Replies 400
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

They interviewed 10 players and 5 gave "nearly identical" accounts. That means the other 5 players gave varying accounts.

Terrance Taylor said he spent "like, 10 hours" at practice when the limit is 4 hours of required activities.

It mostly comes down to a bunch of anonymous whining about how if you didn't do work outside of the required stuff the coaching staff might hold it against you. That's true even in high school sports!

Not surprised to see Mike Rosenberg's name on this *********

Now I have to spend the whole upcoming week hearing more crap about how Rich Rod is destroying the perfect and holy Michigan football program :mad:

Edited by sinister porpoise
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They interviewed 10 players and 5 gave "nearly identical" accounts. That means the other 5 players gave varying accounts.

Terrance Taylor said he spent "like, 10 hours" at practice when the limit is 4 hours of required activities.

It mostly comes down to a bunch of anonymous whining about how if you didn't do work outside of the required stuff the coaching staff might hold it against you. That's true even in high school sports!

Not surprised to see Mike Rosenberg's name on this *********

Now I have to spend the whole upcoming week hearing more crap about how Rich Rod is destroying the perfect and holy Michigan football program :mad:

For kicks and giggles, lets say your interpretation is correct. Then what about the supervised workouts? That seems a little less subjective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Under the heading "More Wolverines headlines":

MSU plays by the rules, say ex-players

After investigating players’ claims of NCAA rules violations in the Michigan football program, the Free Press did a spot check of the state’s other Big Ten university, Michigan State.

Three former Spartans, including one who transferred out of the MSU program, described their off-season workout hours for the Free Press. All three descriptions, provided in separate interviews, were similar and appeared to comply with NCAA rules, which allow only 8 hours of required conditioning, weight training and film review a week during the off-season.

Tight end David Duran left MSU for Coastal Carolina University and recently told the Sun News of Myrtle Beach, S.C., that “one thing that’s a lot different is that up there, you’re a worker. It is a business, and you feel that more.”

Contacted by the Free Press about his comment, Duran said he saw no evidence that MSU was violating time-commitment rules. He said his off-season workouts at MSU consisted of “running and lifting.”

“We’d lift in the morning, run in the afternoon, maybe an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon,” he said.

He said players participated in voluntary seven-on-seven scrimmages “twice a week” during the off-season. In those drills, performed without equipment, seven players on offense run plays against seven defensive players.

Players are supposed to organize those scrimmages with no supervision from coaches or other football staff. Only trainers are allowed to attend in case players need medical attention.

Did Duran ever feel seven-on-sevens were mandatory?

“In no way,” said Duran, a sophomore from Marietta, Ga. “It was the QBs calling us and saying, ‘If you want to come out, we’ll be throwing at this time.’ "

Asked whether coach Mark Dantonio’s MSU program exceeded the NCAA’s 8-hour-per-week off-season limit, Duran replied: “Not at all. Absolutely coach Dantonio is a stand-up guy. I don’t believe he would break any rules.”

Former Spartans running back Javon Ringer said of seven-on-sevens: “We’d get together after some of the workouts. It was really me and” quarterback Brian Hoyer “on our end. There was no coaches.”

Former MSU safety Otis Wiley described his daily off-season routine as “an hour or two lifting, and running, maybe just an hour.”

MSU plays by the rules, say ex-players | Detroit Free Press | Freep.com

(even the URL is a joke)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HAHA, this reeks of rivals trying to find a way to get the other in trouble. That second link sealed it for me. Its almost comical.

I know...you know they heard this stuff out of AA, and in an attempt to be unbiased, they say they also did a "spot check" of MSU. In reality, they're probably just trying to take this rivalry to another level because that = $.

Reading mgoblog...I guess some guy named Snyder contributed to this article, and he's a big time M guy. So I'm not sure this is a straight up smear campaign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know...you know they heard this stuff out of AA, and in an attempt to be unbiased, they say they also did a "spot check" of MSU. In reality, they're probably just trying to take this rivalry to another level because that = $.

Reading mgoblog...I guess some guy named Snyder contributed to this article, and he's a big time M guy. So I'm not sure this is a straight up smear campaign.

Rosenberg is a self hating Michigan fan that has an agenda clear as day. Snyder is a Michigan beat writer and probably has more access than a guy like Rosenberg has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So is it legit? I know nothing about this Snyder guy.

What is legit? That Rosenberg has an agenda? Yep I think that's pretty clear. He has resorted comparing everything to the Carr regime which was obviously different. The whole article was a load of crap the stuff about staffers looking at 7 on 7 drills isn't something surprising at MSU the 7 on 7 field is overlooking coaches offices do you think that's done by accident?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is legit? That Rosenberg has an agenda? Yep I think that's pretty clear. He has resorted comparing everything to the Carr regime which was obviously different. The whole article was a load of crap the stuff about staffers looking at 7 on 7 drills isn't something surprising at MSU the 7 on 7 field is overlooking coaches offices do you think that's done by accident?

You said this Snyder guy is a M beat writer, with good access to the team. Thats what I was referring to. Mgoblog people are saying his name is on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For kicks and giggles, lets say your interpretation is correct. Then what about the supervised workouts? That seems a little less subjective.

What about my interpretation is possibly incorrect?

I was actually a bit harsh on the staff by assuming that quotes like "workouts aren't mandatory, but neither is playing time" might refer to punishment for not working out. It might just mean that if you don't work out you won't be good enough to play rather than actual punishment for not attending 'voluntary' stuff.

Anyways if the workouts were supervised then according to the Freep that'd be a violation. It sounds rather minor to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kind of assumed this sort of thing went on everywhere.

The bulk boils down to what is considered mandatory. If skipping out on a voluntary workouts results in losing spots on the depth chart, does that mean the workout was really mandatory? Or what if they are forced to run extra during regular workouts? What if they are called lazy? The line between mandatory and voluntary has been blurred all over the country.

Regarding non-training staff attending 7 on 7 drills....I guess it depends on if what they were doing is considered 'attending'. I mean, are they not allowed within 500 yards, or can they just not interact? If they were taking attendance, as is insinuated, then that is a clear violation, albeit probably minor.

At any rate, I don't see a whole lot new here, a lot of old quotes that don't distinguish between mandatory and voluntary, players speaking of 'punishment' and being called 'lazy' when somebody misses a workout (and it sounds to me like they missed the mandatory portion), and QC guys lingering around a scrimmage. But still, I've been wondering what is actually voluntary about college football workouts for quite some time now, and it's obvious that if you want to play, nothing is really voluntary. But is that a violation? And what big time program doesn't do that? And what if your fellow players make it de facto mandatory?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kind of assumed this sort of thing went on everywhere.

The bulk boils down to what is considered mandatory. If skipping out on a voluntary workouts results in losing spots on the depth chart, does that mean the workout was really mandatory? Or what if they are forced to run extra during regular workouts? What if they are called lazy? The line between mandatory and voluntary has been blurred all over the country.

Regarding non-training staff attending 7 on 7 drills....I guess it depends on if what they were doing is considered 'attending'. I mean, are they not allowed within 500 yards, or can they just not interact? If they were taking attendance, as is insinuated, then that is a clear violation, albeit probably minor.

At any rate, I don't see a whole lot new here, a lot of old quotes that don't distinguish between mandatory and voluntary, players speaking of 'punishment' and being called 'lazy' when somebody misses a workout (and it sounds to me like they missed the mandatory portion), and QC guys lingering around a scrimmage. But still, I've been wondering what is actually voluntary about college football workouts for quite some time now, and it's obvious that if you want to play, nothing is really voluntary. But is that a violation? And what big time program doesn't do that? And what if your fellow players make it de facto mandatory?

I think what may make this an issue is that the players, seemingly, were doing this very much against their own will. Like these quotes:

One veteran player said the Wolverines talk to each other about the excessive hours under Rodriguez “all the time, but there is nothing we can do about it.”

...

“They were making us sign those — you’d get in trouble if you didn’t sign,” one player on the 2008 team said. “We signed that and joked about that: ‘We work out way more than this.’ We can’t do anything. We were trying to play.”

There was another quote that mentioned they said "this isn't mandatory, but neither is playing time".

I too think, however, it would be a nightmare for someone to prove the mandatory vs. voluntary argument. As a M fan, having current players come out and say this about their current coaching staff would be much more troubling to me.

This has hit "the lead" on the sportscenter ticker...and sportscenter itself as I type this. That was fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joe Schad of ESPN:

Former Michigan starter tells me he would put in 11-hour days on Sundays (4 hour required is max)

About the voluntary vs. mandatory thing, I guess I missed this the first time I skimmed the freep article, or they updated it:

The players said the off-season work was clearly required. Several of them said players who failed to do all the strength and conditioning were forced to come back to finish or were punished with additional work.

“It was mandatory,” one player said. “They’d tell you it wasn’t, but it really was. If you didn’t show up, there was punishment. I just felt for the guys that did miss a workout and had to go through the personal hell they would go through.”

The Freep must know the key word:

The 2008 Wolverines were shocked by how much Rodriguez required on fall Sundays.

Rodriguez required his players to arrive at Schembechler Hall by noon the day after games. They would then go through a full weight-lifting session, followed by individual position meetings and a full-team meeting. Then, at night, they would hold a full practice. Often, they would not leave the practice facility until after 10 p.m

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what may make this an issue is that the players, seemingly, were doing this very much against their own will. Like these quotes:

There was another quote that mentioned they said "this isn't mandatory, but neither is playing time".

I too think, however, it would be a nightmare for someone to prove the mandatory vs. voluntary argument. As a M fan, having current players come out and say this about their current coaching staff would be much more troubling to me.

This has hit "the lead" on the sportscenter ticker...and sportscenter itself as I type this. That was fast.

ESPN.com has an article up where one player says they had 13 hours of mandatory workouts during the off-season. That would mean trouble if true, and I don't know why it wouldn't be. 11 hours on a Sunday sounded awfully mandatory as well, although I don't know how it would be proven.

“They were making us sign those — you’d get in trouble if you didn’t sign,” one player on the 2008 team said. “We signed that and joked about that: ‘We work out way more than this.’ We can’t do anything. We were trying to play.

It seems to me that working out in order to get playing time is a completely voluntary endeavor. It's harsh, but the head coach's only mandatory obligation to the player is to keep his scholarship if he keeps his grades up and puts in the required work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

Michigan launched online sports betting and casino apps on Friday, January 22, 2021. We have selected the top Michigan sportsbooks and casinos that offer excellent bonus offers. Terms and conditions apply.

BetRivers Michigan - Get a 100% up to $250 deposit bonus at their online sportsbook & casino.

Click Here to claim $250 deposit bonus at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Now

FanDuel Michigan - Get a $1,000 risk-free bet at FanDuel Michigan on your first bet.

Click Here to claim $1,000 Risk-Free Bet at FanDuel Michigan

BetMGM Michigan - Get a $600 risk-free bet at the BetMGM online casino & sportsbook

Click Here to claim $600 risk-free bet at BetMGM Michigan

   


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      97.1k
    • Total Posts
      3.1m
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...