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Yup.

That's why I occasionally regurgitate the Darko pick.

That was the lone decision that may prevent Joe from becoming one of the great GMs.

...He can't tank it and delve into the lottery top-five picks. He's not allowed to.

He's required to add pieces that makes each season interesting enough to ticket buyers.

Agree with most of this, but certainly not the part where you say that was the lone decision that he made that could prevent him from being one of the great GM's. I'm pretty sure I posted his draft history somewhere else on here, and overall, the drafting hasn't been too good. But he at least made up for it with some of the FA signings & trades that he made. But regardless, saying the Darko pick was his one mistake just isn't true IMO.

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And to answer your easy question, since it was directed at me. Bruce Bowen was a far better pickup then Dyess. Became a starter and lock down defender. 3 time second team all NBA defensive team member. 5 time first team all NBA defensive team member. It's not even close.

It's close.

Any other great FA pick ups?

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I like the job Joe has done this year. He's going for what he's always wanted; solid players, not superstars. He's gotten alot of bang for his buck.

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he certainly is sticking with his theory of 5 very good players over 1 great player surrounded by throw aways which never works. Prior to this off-season, even had we managed to get a Wade, Bosh or Melo they'd be surrounded by cogs and you really need at least one other great player to get you to the title. Spurs, Bulls, Lakers, Heat, Celtics...all of them had 2 top 15 players on the team. We don't have that even if we land one of those big names so it's certainly a question whether or not getting one of them will do what we need. The only other formula that's shown to work at all is what Joe's done over the past 7 years.

I also think that if you look at the players we've got signed up we may be placing ourselves in a great position to work out a sign and trade with Toronto come mid-season, which is something I'm somewhat wondering if that's what Joe's trying to do. There are certainly enough tradeable commodities (Prince, Hamilton, Gordon, Villanueva, rookies with high ceilings) that Joe might be able to put together the best deal that Toronto will see.

In fact, the more you think about it...that may be exactly what he's doing. One thing you know from this off-season is that Prince is probably the most desired player on the team. Maybe that's why we drafted 3 SF's, with the idea that we're going to have to part with Prince to make something worthwhile happen and if that's the case the more SF's you draft, the better a chance you have of someone panning out.

let's hope that's the idea.

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It's close.

Any other great FA pick ups?

It's only close to a Piston fan. And I say that as one of the biggest Antonio McDyess fans around.

Why do I need other ones? You said Dyess was better than any move SA made. I gave you one move that proved that wrong.

Wouldn't it be ironic if McDyess turns out to be a better FA move for them then he was for Detroit?

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It's close.

Any other great FA pick ups?

This offseason, picking up Jefferson and McDyess could turn out to be great. Since we are talking about previous offseasons, Robert Horry and Nazr Mohammed were integral parts of their championship team in 2005. For a brief period of time, they were certainly good acquisitions in the free agency or trade market.

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This offseason, picking up Jefferson and McDyess could turn out to be great. Since we are talking about previous offseasons, Robert Horry and Nazr Mohammed were integral parts of their championship team in 2005. For a brief period of time, they were certainly good acquisitions in the free agency or trade market.

I like the Jefferson pick up and the McDyess pick up this year.

I think McDyess was better for the Pistons than Mohammed or Horry were for the Spurs.

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1) he certainly is sticking with his theory of 5 very good players over 1 great player surrounded by...

2) I also think that if you look at the players we've got signed up we may be placing ourselves in a great position to work out a sign and trade with Toronto come mid-season, which is something I'm somewhat wondering if that's what Joe's trying to do... In fact, the more you think about it...that may be exactly what he's doing.

3) One thing you know from this off-season is that Prince is probably the most desired player on the team. Maybe that's why we drafted 3 SF's, with the idea that we're going to have to part with Prince to make something worthwhile happen ...

1) +1

2) +2. I've been thinking about this also. Still hoping Joe can pull something off for a high-end talent... Bosh or otherwise...

3) Rip is expendable, but would need a high-end replacement (preferably a pass-first PG). Prince might become expendable in a short while if Summers/ Daye/ Jerebko show more than flashes of talent. I don't think it's why we drafted 3 SF's... the draft just fell that way... But it seems to have positioned us in a certain way...

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I think McDyess was better for the Pistons than Mohammed or Horry were for the Spurs.

I can never take anything away from Robert Horry. The guy was an absolute assassin.

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It's close.

Any other great FA pick ups?

No it's not. A player who guards the oppositions best player and is on the floor all the time, has the tough assignment at the end of games is considerably more valuable than a 6th man who plays 25 minutes a night.

It's no contest.

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I think McDyess was better for the Pistons than Mohammed or Horry were for the Spurs.

I can never take anything away from Robert Horry. The guy was an absolute assassin.

Agree with mtk on this one.....McDyess didn't win us a Championship. Without Robert Horry, it's quite possible that the Spurs might not have won it all in 2005.

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I can never take anything away from Robert Horry. The guy was an absolute assassin.

An assassain who would always on very good teams and had clear cut HOF players. In some cases, more than one.

Well, aside from his short stay in Phoenix, when he punked out the coach during a game and was traded shortly afterwords.

That said, he always did make the clutch shot in key situations.

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No it's not. A player who guards the oppositions best player and is on the floor all the time, has the tough assignment at the end of games is considerably more valuable than a 6th man who plays 25 minutes a night.

It's no contest.

Hey, look who's back! Got tired of del carrying your water?:happy:

I can see the argument about Bowen. But Dyess played at both ends of the floor. Bowen played really good defense and then stood in the corner on offense.

As to Horry, he loafed around the perimeter all game and then made some big three pointers in the playoffs. I'll take the guy who busted his *** all game long, thank you.

Spurs made some good moves this year, that's for sure.

Edited by Buddha

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Hey, look who's back! Got tired of del carrying your water?:happy:

I can see the argument about Bowen. But Dyess played at both ends of the floor. Bowen played really good defense and then stood in the corner on offense.

As to Horry, he loafed around the perimeter all game and then made some big three pointers in the playoffs. I'll take the guy who busted his *** all game long, thank you.

Spurs made some good moves this year, that's for sure.

nah..I just tagged out and let Del..put you in the sleeper hold for a few days..Buddha you rationalize the facts way to much..

Everyone else's point isnt relevant except yours, which makes the discussion frankly, not a dialogue but a waste of time.

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Why do people act as if this is the end of Dumars' effort to rebuild the team as opposed to the beginning? He is amassing pieces, and I believe he will be able to move almost anyone on the roster whenever he sees an opportunity strike.

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Some pretty classy people here with the tags. If someone has something to say about me, how about you sack up and put your name behind it.

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Some pretty classy people here with the tags. If someone has something to say about me, how about you sack up and put your name behind it.

I was on another board and this junk happened. The tags were eventually removed from the forum.

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Some pretty classy people here with the tags. If someone has something to say about me, how about you sack up and put your name behind it.

Wasn't me.

I'll criticize you to your face, you jerk!:happy:

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Everyone else's point isnt relevant except yours, which makes the discussion frankly, not a dialogue but a waste of time.

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?

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I like the job Joe has done this year. He's going for what he's always wanted; solid players, not superstars. He's gotten alot of bang for his buck.

Well, it's not flashy, but you can see he's stacking up talent, I don't think he's done, he's preparing for a trade.

In one year the Pistons have gotten much younger, and if you look at the team as compared to last year it should be better.

Stuckey will show improvement under a hopefully stable coaching philosophy.

Gordon will mesh better with Stuckey's game, upgrade over Iverson

Hamilton will still be Hamilton, I don't think he's going to take a step back, last year he improved his playmaking, in between injuries he had a stretch of games I would say were his best run as a Piston.

Prince shouldn't drop off, hopefully one of the young guys will bust out a bit to give him some rest.

Villenueva will be an upgrade from Johnson and McDyess offensively, of course a big dropoff defensively from McDyess

Brown/Wilcox will be able to put up numbers like Rasheed and play a more traditional center role, which I think should help the guards.

Bynum/Gordon/Maxiell/Daye/Summers/Wilcox should be a good bench.

I think Cleveland/Orlando/Boston are above them, but they can should still win 45-50 games, and be in the middling group with the team as it is now, but I'm thinking something will done during the season when teams get desperate to move pending free agents.

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Well, it's not flashy, but you can see he's stacking up talent, I don't think he's done, he's preparing for a trade.

In one year the Pistons have gotten much younger, and if you look at the team as compared to last year it should be better.

Stuckey will show improvement under a hopefully stable coaching philosophy.

Gordon will mesh better with Stuckey's game, upgrade over Iverson

Hamilton will still be Hamilton, I don't think he's going to take a step back, last year he improved his playmaking, in between injuries he had a stretch of games I would say were his best run as a Piston.

Prince shouldn't drop off, hopefully one of the young guys will bust out a bit to give him some rest.

Villenueva will be an upgrade from Johnson and McDyess offensively, of course a big dropoff defensively from McDyess

Brown/Wilcox will be able to put up numbers like Rasheed and play a more traditional center role, which I think should help the guards.

Bynum/Gordon/Maxiell/Daye/Summers/Wilcox should be a good bench.

I think Cleveland/Orlando/Boston are above them, but they can should still win 45-50 games, and be in the middling group with the team as it is now, but I'm thinking something will done during the season when teams get desperate to move pending free agents.

Sorry man, but I think there's some wishful thinking going on here.....

I hope you're right about us getting ready for a trade, and the team has gotten younger & hopefully turns out to be better than last year.

Now for the wishful thinking....

Stuckey I hope improves, but his assists, or lack of assists kind of worries me as a PG. At under 5 a game, he's gotta be towards the bottom end of starting PG's in that stat.

Gordon is a guy that I like. Streaky shooter or not, he has the ability to hit big shots & if he does heat up, he can be ridiculously dangerous.

Rip is a guy who I feel like should be traded away. Rip has made coming off a screen & shooting his bread & butter play with the Pistons, and I don't really see him having much besides that. Plus with Gordon signing, we can afford to lose Rip & hopefully swing him for another big man, which is more important for us right now IMO.

Tayshaun is a guy that we can count on to play day in and day out on both sides of the ball. He's only missed 3 starts in the past 6 years.

Villanueva I agree with you about. Better offensively, worse defensively.

Brown & Wilcox being able to put up numbers like Rasheed, I'm not so sure about.....I'm hoping Wilcox plays well here, but really, he's kind of a toss up at this point, and Kwame is just a mess IMO. Horrible hands, always losing the ball....I'll admit, once in a while he'll go nuts in a game and have a double-double or come close to getting one, but a lot of the time, he just runs around trying to guard other bigs & ends up with a rebound here & there, and a few points.

Bench, is a complete toss up. With the rookies playing well in Summer League, I'm hoping for the best, but lets be honest, it's the Summer League.....For the rest of the guys there are still some questions. Is Bynum really as good as some of those flashes we saw from him last year? Is Maxiell going to be more like the player from a few years ago, or is he going to be more of the dud type from last year?

All in all, if this is the team we started the year with, I say we'd be coasting right around the .500 mark. 45 wins might be in the cards, but I figure more like the 40-45 range, and if we managed to win 50, I'd honestly be quite surprised.

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I was on another board and this junk happened. The tags were eventually removed from the forum.
We're headed there as well. Tags are basically being used for anoymous personal attacks. Not cool...

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Wasn't me.

I'll criticize you to your face, you jerk!:happy:

The thought never crossed my mind. I know you're better than that.

Plus, when was the last time you said anything in two words? :wink:

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Chris Wilcox sees 'great opportunity' with Pistons - Detroit Pistons Basketball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com

Chris Wilcox sees 'great opportunity' with Pistons

by A. Sherrod Blakely

Wednesday July 22, 2009, 11:30 PM

Chris Wilcox comes to the Detroit Pistons with a chip on his shoulder. That makes him no different than past players who found success in Detroit after bouncing around the league.

"This is a great opportunity to show what I got," said Wilcox, a seven-year veteran who signed a two-year, $6 million deal with Detroit.

The 6-foot-10, 235-pound forward has been an enigma of sorts throughout his NBA career.

With his size, athleticism and ability to score around the basket, Wilcox seems to have all the tools to succeed.

And to his credit, He has shown signs of being a dominant player from time to time.

But that is part of the problem.

Those moments are overshadowed by too many stretches in which he is a non-factor.

However, signing with Detroit offers him an opportunity to play significant minutes, which was not the case last year when he split time between Oklahoma City and New York.

With Kwame Brown as Detroit's only true center, Wilcox has a chance to play major minutes as a starter.

When given steady minutes, Wilcox has been productive.

He spent three seasons in Seattle primarily as a starter, and averaged at least 13.4 points per game. However, that changed when the team moved to Oklahoma City before the 2008-09 season.

And when the Thunder traded him to New York in the middle of last season, things didn't get better. He averaged 13.2 minutes per game with the Knicks, the fewest minutes he averaged since logging 10.2 as a rookie.

"It was a tough transition, moving from Seattle to Oklahoma," Wilcox said. "Oklahoma was going in another route."

The same could be said for the Pistons.

Although Wilcox is part of this new age in Pistons basketball, he picked Detroit in part because of its successful past.

"There's a lot of great history here," said Wilcox, who said he also spoke with Washington, Phoenix and Dallas. "By coming here, I can be part of history, and hopefully, we can make some history here, too."

More moves coming

Signing Wilcox nearly tapped out Detroit's salary cap space, but that doesn't mean they're done making deals. Once they sign all three of their draft picks from last month's draft, as well as 2008 second-round pick Deron Washington, the Pistons plan to sign at least one more player. He will be signed to a contract for the veteran's minimum, which is $1.3 million.

Detroit is considering a handful of players, with former Piston Ben Wallace and veteran center Rasho Nesterovic at the top of their list.

Sharpe traded ... again

Former Piston Walter Sharpe has been traded for the second time in less than a month, according to the Denver Post. The 6-foot-9 forward, who along with Arron Afflalo, was traded to Denver last week for a future second-round pick, has reportedly been traded to the Milwaukee Bucks. The former second-round pick of the Pistons appeared in eight games as a rookie last season.

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