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4 minutes ago, NYLion said:

It just shows how important the QB position is. 

Bottom line, they're going to need somebody better than Goff going forward if they want to compete for the big prize. Some people believe in him, I don't. The Lions should be in the mix for one of the top QBs next draft. They're in a good position to compete in 2-3 years because of all the draft capital they have and with some cap opening up but at the forefront of all that needs to be a potential franchise QB.

If only Goff had ever competed for the big prize. 

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7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If only Goff had ever competed for the big prize. 

I knew you were going to mention that.

First of all, they had an elite supporting cast and an elite play caller devising  a system that perfectly fit his skillset which is my main issue with him, that you need a perfect supporting cast around him to maximize his skillset. 

Also, it seems like he's not who he once was. He's more a game manager as opposed to a QB who can carry the team for stretches. I don't know if that's what he is now or if it's due to the degraded offensive supporting cast, coach not believing in him etc. but the Lions will never go anywhere with a game manager at QB unless Holmes hits a lot of homeruns with his supporting cast.

Dilfer, Flacco and Jimmy G all won/made Superbowls. Are those guys franchise QBs that you build around? No. Goff is that guy like those three who was in the right place at the right time IMO. If they finish bottom 5 with a healthy Goff, they better take a QB with that 1st pick.

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6 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I knew you were going to mention that.

First of all, they had an elite supporting cast and an elite play caller devising  a system that perfectly fit his skillset which is my main issue with him, that you need a perfect supporting cast around him to maximize his skillset. 

Also, it seems like he's not who he once was. He's more a game manager as opposed to a QB who can carry the team for stretches. I don't know if that's what he is now or if it's due to the degraded offensive supporting cast, coach not believing in him etc. but the Lions will never go anywhere with a game manager at QB unless Holmes hits a lot of homeruns with his supporting cast.

Dilfer, Flacco and Jimmy G all won/made Superbowls. Are those guys franchise QBs that you build around? No. Goff is that guy like those three who was in the right place at the right time IMO. If they finish bottom 5 with a healthy Goff, they better take a QB with that 1st pick.

Thankfully we have the guy who helped draft all those players that made the Rams this uber super team that you can just drop an average QB on and they'll go to the Super Bowl. 

Except for Dilfer, none of those QB's were a top 10 pick. It wasn't that long ago where Goff was the next thing and number 1 pick which you seem to want to take again. 

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6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Thankfully we have the guy who helped draft all those players that made the Rams this uber super team that you can just drop an average QB on and they'll go to the Super Bowl. 

Except for Dilfer, none of those QB's were a top 10 pick. It wasn't that long ago where Goff was the next thing and number 1 pick which you seem to want to take again. 

I don't think he was ever classified as "The Next Big Thing". I never said that they were a Super Team but they had the best running back in the league whose presence opened up the passing game and an offensive mind that created a lot of mismatches in the passing game with all sorts of motion and misdirection.

I guess we'll see. If the Lions finish bottom 5 this season with a healthy Goff and he's part of the reason why they're bad, would you agree that it's time to take a QB with the first pick or would you bypass QB again and hope for the best after 3 straight down seasons for Goff? I personally think they'd be damn fools to pass on a QB if that scenario unfolds.

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5 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I’d be willing to let Goff have his year to show us what he can and cannot do away from LA before casting long term judgements on his place here.

He's probably got at least a two year window since they restructured his contract and really didn't give him any WRs to work with. 

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3 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I don't think he was ever classified as "The Next Big Thing". I never said that they were a Super Team but they had the best running back in the league whose presence opened up the passing game and an offensive mind that created a lot of mismatches in the passing game.

I guess we'll see. If the Lions finish bottom 5 this season with a healthy Goff and he's part of the reason why they're bad, would you agree that it's time to take a QB with the first pick or would you bypass QB again and hope for the best after 3 straight down seasons for Goff?

Goff was probably just as highly rated as any QB that will be coming out this year. 

Matthew Stafford had 3 down seasons at the same age as Goff. The top 2 QBs after 3 straight down seasons from Stafford were Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariotta drafted 1 and 2. Would you take either over Stafford? 

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20 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I knew you were going to mention that.

First of all, they had an elite supporting cast and an elite play caller devising  a system that perfectly fit his skillset which is my main issue with him, that you need a perfect supporting cast around him to maximize his skillset. 

Also, it seems like he's not who he once was. He's more a game manager as opposed to a QB who can carry the team for stretches. I don't know if that's what he is now or if it's due to the degraded offensive supporting cast, coach not believing in him etc. but the Lions will never go anywhere with a game manager at QB unless Holmes hits a lot of homeruns with his supporting cast.

Dilfer, Flacco and Jimmy G all won/made Superbowls. Are those guys franchise QBs that you build around? No. Goff is that guy like those three who was in the right place at the right time IMO. If they finish bottom 5 with a healthy Goff, they better take a QB with that 1st pick.

rex grossman was a super bowl qb.  brad johnson too.

sometimes you get to the super bowl because your team is good, not because youre a great qb.

qb HAS to be their pick next year.  i think its just as likely that they trade UP to get a qb next year if they fall out of the top 2.  they have those rams picks to use as well as their own.

they could always see about trading for tua, he's apparently on the block.  lol.

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3 minutes ago, Buddha said:

rex grossman was a super bowl qb.  brad johnson too.

sometimes you get to the super bowl because your team is good, not because youre a great qb.

qb HAS to be their pick next year.  i think its just as likely that they trade UP to get a qb next year if they fall out of the top 2.  they have those rams picks to use as well as their own.

they could always see about trading for tua, he's apparently on the block.  lol.

Except for the fact that Goff was a two time pro bowler and borderline MVP candidate, there's no difference between him and Grossman. 

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11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Goff was probably just as highly rated as any QB that will be coming out this year. 

Matthew Stafford had 3 down seasons at the same age as Goff. The top 2 QBs after 3 straight down seasons from Stafford were Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariotta drafted 1 and 2. Would you take either over Stafford? 

Goff doesn't have the skillset that Stafford does. If he has 3 straight down seasons with two different teams, it would be foolish to bet on him to lead your franchise going forward. 

Obviously I'd love to be proven wrong but I've watched enough of Goff to be confident that he's not the QB they need to compete for Super Bowl eventually. I'd much rather bank on a higher upside prospect going forward than Goff. If he shows that he can be an impact player this season and somebody that can carry the team for stretches then sure, roll with it, but I don't think it's likely.

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1 minute ago, NYLion said:

Goff doesn't have the skillset that Stafford does. If he has 3 straight down seasons with two different teams, it would be foolish to bet on him to lead your franchise going forward. 

Obviously I'd love to be proven wrong but I've watched enough of Goff to be confident that he's not the QB they need to compete for Super Bowl eventually. I'd much rather bank on a higher upside prospect going forward than Goff. If he shows that he can be an impact player this season and somebody that can carry the team for stretches then sure, roll with it, but I don't think it's likely.

The knock on Matthew Stafford was that he couldn't win big games or playoff games. He's replaced with a QB who has won big playoff games and he's not as good as Stafford. Goff is on a similar development arch as Stafford. Both had started off with big seasons and then regressed. It wasn't until Jim Bob Cooter came along that Stafford became more of a passer than a gunslinger. Seems way to early to write off Goff. It's not like Goff was a 5th round pick who overachieved. He was drafted to be a franchise QB and was playing like it for the 1st half of his short career. 

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

The knock on Matthew Stafford was that he couldn't win big games or playoff games. He's replaced with a QB who has won big playoff games and he's not as good as Stafford. Goff is on a similar development arch as Stafford. Both had started off with big seasons and then regressed. It wasn't until Jim Bob Cooter came along that Stafford became more of a passer than a gunslinger. Seems way to early to write off Goff. It's not like Goff was a 5th round pick who overachieved. He was drafted to be a franchise QB and was playing like it for the 1st half of his short career. 

FTR, I'm not writing off Goff necessarily. I'm painting a scenario where he struggles for a 3rd straight season and the Lions are in a position to take one of the top QB prospects.

I'm skeptical for sure but I'm willing to have my mind changed if he has a good year.

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To switch a way from the Goff talk for a min I wonder how much Sewell's struggles can be blamed on him sitting out last season?

I know JaMarre Chase has struggled for the Bengals and he sat out last year too same with Lance who judging by his PFF grade hasn't been that sharp either.

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1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

To switch a way from the Goff talk for a min I wonder how much Sewell's struggles can be blamed on him sitting out last season?

I know JaMarre Chase has struggled for the Bengals and he sat out last year as well same with Lance who judging by his PFF grade hasn't been that sharp either.

Sewell is also changing positions. 

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32 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

He's probably got at least a two year window since they restructured his contract and really didn't give him any WRs to work with. 

Which I’m also fine with. My point is only that Goff should not be written off as not part of the long-term plan before he takes a regular season snap in Detroit.

He was good at times in LA, he was awful at times in LA. Let’s see how he is in Detroit before locking in our 2022 1st round draft pick.

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Sewell is also changing positions. 

Yes thats true, many people myself included take switching sides on the OL for granted, Jon Jansen was talking about it the other day on the radio and he said it isn't as seamless transition as some may think. 

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3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yes thats true, many people myself included take switching sides on the OL for granted, Jon Jansen was talking about it the other day on the radio and he said it isn't as seamless transition as some may think. 

Think about how wide the spectrum si in people with regard to how strongly 'handed' they are. Some people are completely ambidextrous, some can't do anything easily with their off hand. So you can believe that depending on the person, switching sides might anything from trivially easy, to just need a little work to get familiar, to "I just can't work from this side!"

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32 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Except for the fact that Goff was a two time pro bowler and borderline MVP candidate, there's no difference between him and Grossman. 

except for the fact that goff in the last two years put up a pretty similar qbr to sexy rexy's super bowl year...

you keep ignoring goff's last two years like they never happened.  he wasnt very good.

so now he's coming to a team that has many worse offensive players than the team he just left and you seem to expect him to be good again.  i think goff could probably be a fine qb surrounded by talent, but he has very little talent on this team, especially at wide receiver.  consequently, i dont expect him to do well.

i also expect the lions will draft his replacement either this year or next and that goff is not good enough to be their long term qb.

but yes, he did have two good seasons in a row over two years ago.

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

except for the fact that goff in the last two years put up a pretty similar qbr to sexy rexy's super bowl year...

you keep ignoring goff's last two years like they never happened.  he wasnt very good.

so now he's coming to a team that has many worse offensive players than the team he just left and you seem to expect him to be good again.  i think goff could probably be a fine qb surrounded by talent, but he has very little talent on this team, especially at wide receiver.  consequently, i dont expect him to do well.

i also expect the lions will draft his replacement either this year or next and that goff is not good enough to be their long term qb.

but yes, he did have two good seasons in a row over two years ago.

Well no, Grossman's career high in QBR was 48 compared to Goff's career low of 50 in 2019 and 58 last year. Grossman put up QBRs in the 20's. Are you being serious here? 

I'm not ignoring Goff's last two years. In fact, I've acknowledged his regression and pointing out that other QBs have regressed just like Goff before rebounding. Stafford had a 47 QBR at age 26. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

He's probably got at least a two year window since they restructured his contract and really didn't give him any WRs to work with. 

I think that's correct even if they draft a top 5 QB next year. 

Goff can still QB for another year whilst drafted QB can learn the ropes from him...

Also... pick up a 2nd round WR next year and let him develop for a year and in 2023... well-developed WR & QB can take over the reigns...

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14 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Well no, Grossman's career high in QBR was 48 compared to Goff's career low of 50 in 2019 and 58 last year. Grossman put up QBRs in the 20's. Are you being serious here? 

I'm not ignoring Goff's last two years. In fact, I've acknowledged his regression and pointing out that other QBs have regressed just like Goff before rebounding. Stafford had a 47 QBR at age 26. 

Goff certainly deserves a chance, preferably with some guys who can catch the ball available to him.

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Well no, Grossman's career high in QBR was 48 compared to Goff's career low of 50 in 2019 and 58 last year. Grossman put up QBRs in the 20's. Are you being serious here? 

I'm not ignoring Goff's last two years. In fact, I've acknowledged his regression and pointing out that other QBs have regressed just like Goff before rebounding. Stafford had a 47 QBR at age 26. 

50 is pretty similar to 48, last time i checked.  and i said it was his super bowl year, which it was.

you "acknowledge his regression" by saying other qbs have regressed too.  you dont actually acknowledge that goff was bad and could be bad in detroit.  

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Why is it that McVay is a genius and Goff is a chump?  McVay came out of gates firing, but hasn’t really adjusted.  He is really that good of a coach if his offense isn’t adaptable?   The play calling for the rams has left a lot to be desired.  

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2 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

Goff has an unsettled O-Line, an unsettled RB corps, and absolutely an unsettled (abysmal) WR corps. We're not going to get a very good read on him this year.

He does have a very good #1 TE option, however...

RB is perfectly settled. 

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