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Training Camp / Preseason thread


T&P_Fan
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Offseason is over. It’s football time again. This thread will serve to discuss developments in training camp and then discuss the preseason games.

Lions are universally considered to finish last, or close to it in the NFL this season.  Talking heads have paid no real attention to the lions and have instead painted the organization as clueless using sound bites of Campbell press conferences.   No talking head actually dives into football specific discussion, it’s all whatever will get the most clicks.

Lions will be better than last year.  They will win more than 5 games.   This should be universally agreed upon. But it’s not because football people don’t know anything about football outside of Tom Brady and the cowboys.

This is the year we build.  I’ll bet we come out and beat the 49ers week 1.  

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I put the Lions over/under at 5 games. I wouldn't be surprised if they win more. I think Campbell is smarter than people give him credit for. The media ran with the kneecap thing instead of actually listening to the 1.5 hour press conference he gave. If the Lions are successful, every team in the league will shift from hiring play callers to Dan Campbell types. 

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I agree on Campbell.  I think we'll start hearing the media say things like "Who could have seen this coming?" when the Lions surprise people.  We should direct them here. 

They still need a lot of pieces, but I can easily see them flirt with .500 this season, due solely to the fact Patricia is gone.

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With a few exceptions where play is strongly one-on-one ( CB maybe?), bad coaching, scheme and teamwork can bias  the perception of the individual quality of the players on a football team. Some of these players may look like better players in a better system - we really don't know until we see them play in it - but we can hope.

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I would not be shocked AT ALL to see the Lions come out strong this year...it would be the Lion thing to do...the thing I would least expect, so the logic comes out backwards and I could see them winning 9 or 10 games this year.

I have no REAL prediction, I could see any # of possible things happen to this team.  I do not THINK they will be the worst team in football by any stretch, but I would not be shocked if they were.

I know that is kind of talking in circles, but it is what the Lions have done to me.  I still watch the games because it is such a tradition on Sunday, but have no real expectation any longer...it is total apathy for me.  It took just under 30 years for them to do that to me.

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NFL players going crazy over today’s announcement that if a team causes a game not to be played because of a COVID outbreak that team may have to forfeit and no one will be paid.  One Lions players thoughts below. 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If the NFL will force teams to forfeit games over COVID, they should allow teams to cut players unwilling to vaccinate without a cap penalty. 

Amen to this.   Fully onboard. 

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4 hours ago, djhutch said:

I agree on Campbell.  I think we'll start hearing the media say things like "Who could have seen this coming?" when the Lions surprise people.  We should direct them here. 

They still need a lot of pieces, but I can easily see them flirt with .500 this season, due solely to the fact Patricia is gone.

LIke no chance of that happening. Talent got worse. Their schedule is god awful to start the year. Season ended before it even started.

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7 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

LIke no chance of that happening. Talent got worse. Their schedule is god awful to start the year. Season ended before it even started.

The talent didn’t get worse.  

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1 minute ago, T&P_Fan said:

The talent didn’t get worse.  

you're not being anywhere close to being fair or objective or realistic if you think that. **** they lot a top 5 player in franchise history at the most important position. It got worse

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Here's the thing about the flirt with .500 crowd or they'll be better crowd that they always miss. The lions have a crazy hard schedule. Just look at it. How many games do you go sure they could win that?

Six? 

Bengals

Broncos

Falcons

Maybe Cardinals

Bears/Vikings (two there maybe. They ain't going 4-0 against those two teams)

 

The rest are all loses. And remember the ones we listed are "sure they *could* win." So they ain't gonig 6-0 in those games. 

Then you factor in the defense is bad. The offense doesn't have one player worth scheming for. Seriously D coordinators are just gonna line up base and say go. Who would you have to scheme for. Maybe? TJ. 

Then you add in the fact it is a new coaching staff and that is gonna lead to bump and difficulties while everyone figures it out. Remember the Tigers in April. Took a bit for them to mesh with AJ. THis has the makings of a 3 win season and that's OK

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1 minute ago, Keepleyland2 said:

you're not being anywhere close to being fair or objective or realistic if you think that. **** they lot a top 5 player in franchise history at the most important position. It got worse

A guy with zero playoff wins replaced with a guy who’s been to the Super Bowl.  Look, I loved stafford.  Here is an awesome competitor, but he didn’t win enough.  Not even close to all on him, but he doesn’t escape all blame either. 

Lions will be markedly improved on defense.  Deeper at running back.  People are evaluating talent solely based on how they played under Patrica.  There was no game plan.  Coaches sabotaged the players.  A competent coaching staff improves the talent, look at the tigers.  

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6 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Here's the thing about the flirt with .500 crowd or they'll be better crowd that they always miss. The lions have a crazy hard schedule. Just look at it. How many games do you go sure they could win that?

Six? 

Bengals

Broncos

Falcons

Maybe Cardinals

Bears/Vikings (two there maybe. They ain't going 4-0 against those two teams)

 

The rest are all loses. And remember the ones we listed are "sure they *could* win." So they ain't gonig 6-0 in those games. 

Then you factor in the defense is bad. The offense doesn't have one player worth scheming for. Seriously D coordinators are just gonna line up base and say go. Who would you have to scheme for. Maybe? TJ. 

Then you add in the fact it is a new coaching staff and that is gonna lead to bump and difficulties while everyone figures it out. Remember the Tigers in April. Took a bit for them to mesh with AJ. THis has the makings of a 3 win season and that's OK

It’s the NFL, the schedule is hard every year.   Look at week 1.  That will be a win.  Jimmy G blows.   

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2 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

A guy with zero playoff wins replaced with a guy who’s been to the Super Bowl.  Look, I loved stafford.  Here is an awesome competitor, but he didn’t win enough.  Not even close to all on him, but he doesn’t escape all blame either. 

Lions will be markedly improved on defense.  Deeper at running back.  People are evaluating talent solely based on how they played under Patrica.  There was no game plan.  Coaches sabotaged the players.  A competent coaching staff improves the talent, look at the tigers.  

LOL using a super bowl apperance. Might as well go sign Trent Dilfer he's been to one too. 

I'm basing talent on talent. If you think Patricia was so bad that he made Tavai miss every tackle, I'll have what you're smoking. They lost Stafford the entire WR room and more and didn't do anything to repace it. 

Patricia was god awful. The talent was bad. It didn't get better. 

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2 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

LOL using a super bowl apperance. Might as well go sign Trent Dilfer he's been to one too. 

I'm basing talent on talent. If you think Patricia was so bad that he made Tavai miss every tackle, I'll have what you're smoking. They lost Stafford the entire WR room and more and didn't do anything to repace it. 

Patricia was god awful. The talent was bad. It didn't get better. 

Quit reading PFF everyday.  Swift and T.J. will have monster years.  Goff will be adequate.  The defense will likely be top 20.  7-9 win team.  All day. 

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Jared Goff was a two time pro bowler and borderline MVP so he's not even close to being Trent Dilfer. Goff has a higher career passer rating than Stafford and higher completion percentage and a near identical TD and INT rate. Look at Stafford's numbers when he was 25-26 and compare them to Goff. I don't expect the downgrade at QB to be as bad as everyone expects. 

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Preseason schedule analysis is a crapshoot.

The talent level discrepancy between top-10 NFL teams and bottom-12 NFL teams is not as much as many preseason predictions make them out to be. Yes, talent matters, and yes, the Chiefs, Bucs, and Bills have more talent than the Lions, Jets, and Jags. But any given Sunday is a mantra for a reason. This is not MLB where everything tends to even out over a marathon of a six month season. So much of an NFL game and an NFL season is tied to game plans, in-game adjustments, injuries, and luck that there is a reason it seems every year a team that is supposed to win 12+ ends up winning 6 and a team supposed to be in the gutter makes the playoffs.

It is easy to look at the Lions and say that they lost the one thing going for them for the past decade in Stafford and they ain't done **** in that decade so they'll suck. That's incredibly oversimplistic. I am not saying that they are going to make a playoff run, but I think the pundits who say the Lions will win 1-3 games are just making the easy prediction rather than the one most likely to be accurate.

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On 7/22/2021 at 9:30 PM, T&P_Fan said:

A guy with zero playoff wins replaced with a guy who’s been to the Super Bowl.  Look, I loved stafford.  Here is an awesome competitor, but he didn’t win enough.  Not even close to all on him, but he doesn’t escape all blame either. 

Lions will be markedly improved on defense.  Deeper at running back.  People are evaluating talent solely based on how they played under Patrica.  There was no game plan.  Coaches sabotaged the players.  A competent coaching staff improves the talent, look at the tigers.  

Stafford is a better QB than Goff...full stop.  The TEAM around each player has NOTHING to do with the players ability itself.

I agree with Leyland regarding THAT position, but I do think we are a better overall team...even losing Stafford.

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If and it could be a big if but if the Lions coaches are as good as many people are expecting(not necessarily talking about Campbell but the assistants and position coaches) than they can make us and our players alot better. They make far more of a difference than some people think. 

Look at GB a few years ago, people questioned their offensive line, pass rush and secondary, then Lafleur and company came in and immediately turned the OL and secondary into major assets and improved the pass rush as well with majority if not all the same players.  

With any luck something similar can be done with the Lions maybe not to that extent cause even the best coaches can only do so much but if they can make improvements to a few players here and there it could make enough difference to help us squeak out an extra couple wins that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten.

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4 hours ago, Buddha said:

i was reading some athletic.com predictions on the lions final roster.  man, this team is not good.  we are going to really struggle this year.

What’s the problem?  The roster looks encouraging.  

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