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Who would you rather Trade Mathew Boyd For?


Who would you most trade Boyd for?  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you trade Boyd for Ronny Mauricio of the Mets?

    • Ronny Mauricio
      3
    • Nolan Gorman
      5
    • Keibert Ruiz
      1
    • Brice Turang
      1
    • None of the Above
      2


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1 hour ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

We're talking the offseason, right?

Because:

A) I don't believe we will be offered anything of significance for Boyd

B) More importantly, this is the year of Covid Recovery. All starters are required to be on board this year to handle innings distribution. Our goal is to protect Mize & Manning & Skubal... not to trade Boyd for whatever we can get. At least until this offseason.

 

At that point (the offseason)... whatever we can get that has future value. Probably a middle reliever.

I think there is going to be a huge demand just for some quality innings. Boyd has already left one game with hammy issue, but if he is healthy in July, there should be significant demand to create a decent return.

STL for one has lost 4 starters already.

They can protect Mize and Skubal's arms with Boyd or with Logan Shore or Erasmo Ramrez.

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44 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I guess I don't see what was so wrong about asking/hoping for a Torres like player in return. Unlike with others we traded we actually had some leverage with Boyd.  He was cheap and under control for several years so we didn't have to trade him then and at the time the SP market was dry, so much so many pundits thought Boyd was the best available.

Why not shoot for the highest offer? Maybe you'll get lucky and a desperate team will bite, if they don't just hold onto him and trade him at another time. 

Of course we all know what happened but if Avila settled and traded him for a modest return and Boyd kept on the trajectory he was setting at that time fans would still be raking him over the coals to this day.

its not silly, per se.  but its not like boyd was the only pitcher - or the best available pitcher - on the market.  the yankees may have had interest in boyd but figured the tigers' asking price was too high, so they went somewhere else and gave up a potentially attractive package of prospects that they might have dealt for boyd, but instead of asking for that package (or something similar) we asked for their 21 year old all star shortstop, which was always unrealistic.

but really none of us have any idea how it went.

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I think the best case is Boyd would bring back someone in the very back half of the top 100 prospect lists, so I don't think these names are realistic. But, Boyd needs to start pitching better if the Tigers goal is to trade him for max value.

 

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2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Speaking of overhyped Yankee prospects I remember Yankees fans and NY writers(and some national guys) saying Austin Jackson was going to be the next great Yankee CF, they projected him to be a better version of Bernie Williams. 

That is until they traded him to us then suddenly all his flaws were called out by the same people hyping him up before hand. 

I think Austin would have justified more of that hype but for the leg/hammy issues that started in 2013. He produced ~19 war in his 1st 4 seasons (more than Torres by the way - though granted Austin was older). But after 2013 he was never the same player. He looked like he couldn't or wouldn't run hard anymore, which took him from being an elite defender to a CF liability, and it appeared to sap his ability to generate power in his swing as well. In retrospect we naturally think of Max as being the centerpiece of that trade for Detroit, but TBF,  if Max was not exactly still a lottery ticket, he was still close to it. But they thought Jackson would check all the boxes. And for a while at least, he did.

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6 hours ago, Buddha said:

oh no!  not ian kinsler!  how horrible.

kinsler didnt even make the majors until he was 24.  torres is now 24 and in his 4th season, and has put up an ops+ of over 100 in every season he's played.

this is somehow bad?  youre using this to mock people who didnt think the yankees would ever trade that for a 27 year old (at the time) starting pitcher who was coming off the only 1/2 a season of success he'd ever had (and was bad in the second half of that season).  well, they didnt.  and they wouldnt make that trade again either.  and since the trade torres has put up more war (if you want to use war, which overrates starting pitchers who stay healthy no matter how bad or below average they are), so what was the point again?

24 year old ian kinsler's dont grow on trees.  if they did Al might have been able to pick one by now instead of leaving us with a minor league organization full of 50 shortstop jacks of all trades and masters of none.

Kinsler is a fine player, but is he a all of famer? No. 

Nothing wrong with it just a fact, he's a good, not a great player like some people.. ahem you...tried to claim he was/would be. And there are plenty of good players in the league and none of them are ridiculous trade candidates. Just like Boyd isn't a Cy Young winner, but a really solid mid-roation guy. Both are valuable both are needed and both are a fair move for each.

And I like that you crap all over WAR. I know you have to because it proved at the time it wasn't a ridiculous ask like you claim and continues to. But, hey anything to keep your narrative going am I right? 

I also like that you always bring up age to. LIke a 27 year old pitcher that is cost controlled for 4 years is like the same as a 38 year old one year from free agency. 

I bet if you ask yankee fans right now if they could have a mid roation guy for Torres they'd be ok with that. Here let me go outside an ask....yep they are. 

That was my point. That they have very similar values and continue to. 

 

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9 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I bet if you ask yankee fans right now if they could have a mid roation guy for Torres they'd be ok with that. Here let me go outside an ask....yep they are. 

I don't care what Yankee fans think.  But if Cashman would like to make that trade, Avila agree to it twice, pay for all processing and transportation fees, and then refuse to pinch himself forever.

The Tigers need a SS, they need help in the lineup.  Torres fits that, and he has two full seasons of over .800 OPS on his baseball card and he is 6 years younger than Boyd, under control for 3 seasons after Boyd can hit free agency.  And, sure, Torres hit not as well last (shortened) season and hasn't met his previous numbers so far this season.  I'll gladly take the chance that he rebounds from the low .700s to closer to .800.

Boyd fills a current need for the Tigers.  They need competent starting pitching, they need innings thrown, especially later this season when they slow Mize and Skubal down.  Moving away from him isn't exactly perfect for this season, but if they can deal him for Torres, the gains are just better than the losses for now and the future.

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53 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I don't care what Yankee fans think.  But if Cashman would like to make that trade, Avila agree to it twice, pay for all processing and transportation fees, and then refuse to pinch himself forever.

The Tigers need a SS, they need help in the lineup.  Torres fits that, and he has two full seasons of over .800 OPS on his baseball card and he is 6 years younger than Boyd, under control for 3 seasons after Boyd can hit free agency.  And, sure, Torres hit not as well last (shortened) season and hasn't met his previous numbers so far this season.  I'll gladly take the chance that he rebounds from the low .700s to closer to .800.

Boyd fills a current need for the Tigers.  They need competent starting pitching, they need innings thrown, especially later this season when they slow Mize and Skubal down.  Moving away from him isn't exactly perfect for this season, but if they can deal him for Torres, the gains are just better than the losses for now and the future.

youre obviously correct.

i like the image of KL refreshing baseball reference for four years to find the one instance when torres and boyd had the same war in a season then rushing back to mock all of us who thought Al was ridiculous for supposedly asking for torres for boyd.

its real commitment to the troll.

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14 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Kinsler is a fine player, but is he a all of famer? No. 

Nothing wrong with it just a fact, he's a good, not a great player like some people.. ahem you...tried to claim he was/would be. And there are plenty of good players in the league and none of them are ridiculous trade candidates. Just like Boyd isn't a Cy Young winner, but a really solid mid-roation guy. Both are valuable both are needed and both are a fair move for each.

And I like that you crap all over WAR. I know you have to because it proved at the time it wasn't a ridiculous ask like you claim and continues to. But, hey anything to keep your narrative going am I right? 

I also like that you always bring up age to. LIke a 27 year old pitcher that is cost controlled for 4 years is like the same as a 38 year old one year from free agency. 

I bet if you ask yankee fans right now if they could have a mid roation guy for Torres they'd be ok with that. Here let me go outside an ask....yep they are. 

That was my point. That they have very similar values and continue to. 

 

So, you would trade a 24-year old old future Kinsler for Boyd?  

 

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12 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

So, you would trade a 24-year old old future Kinsler for Boyd?  

 

No, certainly not for Kinsler. But that may not even be a good comp. Whether Torres approaches Kinsler's career is not anything like given. In fact it is probably a stretch to think that in Torres, who has not been a plus fielder even at young age, you will have a player with anything like the defensive value into this 30's that Kinsler did. Ian was quite an outlier in how well he defended at advanced (for an MIF!) age.

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5 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

No, certainly not for Kinsler. But that may not even be a good comp. Whether Torres approaches Kinsler's career is not anything like given. In fact it is probably a stretch to think that in Torres, who has not been a plus fielder even at young age, you will have a player with anything like the defensive value into this 30's that Kinsler did. Ian was quite an outlier in how well he defended at advanced (for an MIF!) age.

My point was Kinsler was not a good example of someone you wouldn't take in a trade for Boyd.  

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5 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

No, certainly not for Kinsler. But that may not even be a good comp. Whether Torres approaches Kinsler's career is not anything like given. In fact it is probably a stretch to think that in Torres, who has not been a plus fielder even at young age, you will have a player with anything like the defensive value into this 30's that Kinsler did. Ian was quite an outlier in how well he defended at advanced (for an MIF!) age.

Why are we worried about Torres in his 30s?  He'll have signed his bloated FA windfall contract by then.

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41 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

My point was Kinsler was not a good example of someone you wouldn't take in a trade for Boyd.  

right. I was just commenting that it seemed that somewhere in the discussion Torres/Kinsler were being drawn as a comp . It goes without saying (which is why it's about to get said right here on the interwebs xD) that if you (speaking from the Yankee side)  *knew* Torres was Kinsler what you would be willing to trade him for would be different than what I would be willing to trade him for now (because as of today I doubt he will be Kinsler). 

Which I guess actually lines up with your point that from the other side you don't give up Kinsler for Boyd.

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I would trade Boyd for Torres right now in a heartbeat.

One thought: I don't care about the glove or position. We can try him at SS, 1B, OF, DH...

It's the power bat (one of them actually) that we need. We can figure out position later. DH will open up in about a year or so... so if he's that bad in the field we can still put him somewhere (DH) for his bat and just spot start him in the field on an as needed basis...

Obviously...

the Yanks would still laugh in our faces at the very idea of that trade.

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In a vacuum would a team trade somebody like Torres for Boyd? No but when you put context into it at the time it isn't as outrageous as it seems. 

 

The Yankees offense and middle infield was stacked that year but they desperately needed SP. They were in a tight race with their bitter rival the Red Sox and SP was what looked like their only flaw.   IIRC Boyd was pitching at a near All Star level at the time and if he kept that up he could theoretically be the missing piece for the Yankees. Is that worth a young bat? Probably not but the Cubs traded that same young bat a couple seasons prior for a half season of Chapman. In a vacuum most teams wouldn't do that trade but it ended up helping the Cubs win a World Series. 

 Now Boyd certainly didn't have the track record of Chapman and I'm not suggesting he is as valuable,  my point was teams will sometimes do what appear to be unfair trades if they think it can win them a championship, Boyd plugged the one hole that the Yankees had that year so it was reasonable to think from Al's perspective that they may overpay for it. 

Basically Al tried to take advantage of a desperate team and unfortunately it didn't work but I can't fault him for trying.

 

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34 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

... Basically Al tried to take advantage of a desperate team and unfortunately it didn't work but I can't fault him for trying.

I don't fault him for that either.

And 99 times out of 100 that trade doesn't happen (Boyd for Torres). 

The 1 time out of 100 that you get a trade like that you have to count yourself lucky (your guy is looked at as the "missing piece" (like Chapman... and I guess like Alexander when we traded Smoltz for him...)) that a team is willing to pay a high price for that.

But the premise others are arguing for (not saying you are doing this) that the Yanks absolutely should consider that trade because these two have the same WAR the past 4 years doesn't ring true. Boyd would have to have been looked at the same was as Chapman... the missing piece to a championship. Boyd is not that. Or that Torres was NOT a budding star with a monster bat... Except, that he is, was, and even with a subpar glove. WAR doesn't tell the story at all as others have pointed out: reliable innings eaters get lots of WAR which is not really equivalent to the daily production that a position player adds to a team... even at the same WAR. And PS: I think that their similar WAR's over the past 4 years is very coincidental...)

I don't fault Al for trying at all. But he just wasn't going to get him for Boyd. The Cubs idiotic prospect management notwithstanding...

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17 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I don't fault him for that either.

And 99 times out of 100 that trade doesn't happen (Boyd for Torres). 

The 1 time out of 100 that you get a trade like that you have to count yourself lucky (your guy is looked at as the "missing piece" (like Chapman... and I guess like Alexander when we traded Smoltz for him...)) that a team is willing to pay a high price for that.

But the premise others are arguing for (not saying you are doing this) that the Yanks absolutely should consider that trade because these two have the same WAR the past 4 years doesn't ring true. Boyd would have to have been looked at the same was as Chapman... the missing piece to a championship. Boyd is not that. Or that Torres was NOT a budding star with a monster bat... Except, that he is, was, and even with a subpar glove. WAR doesn't tell the story at all as others have pointed out: reliable innings eaters get lots of WAR which is not really equivalent to the daily production that a position player adds to a team... even at the same WAR. And PS: I think that their similar WAR's over the past 4 years is very coincidental...)

I don't fault Al for trying at all. But he just wasn't going to get him for Boyd. The Cubs idiotic prospect management notwithstanding...

one quibble: torres has more war than boyd over the last 4 years.  7.7 to 6.1.

theo is dumb with prospects BUT, chapman did help the cubs get their first world championship in 100 years, so we can let that one slide.  ;)

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

one quibble: torres has more war than boyd over the last 4 years.  7.7 to 6.1.

theo is dumb with prospects BUT, chapman did help the cubs get their first world championship in 100 years, so we can let that one slide.  ;)

7.7 to 6.1 is not a huge difference over 4 years, too minor to quibble methinks (average less than 2 WAR per year versus 1.5 per year...).

But yeah... a shutdown dominant reliever that potentially gets you a championship is worth a high-level prospect (to some); same as a top o' the rotation starter...

But an innings eater? They're dime a dozen... I get filling a hole... but an easily attainable commodity (high supply) is not worth a low-supply (high upside/ high power) prospect. I think we are in agreement on this... 

Just my 2 cents...

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