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Defending the Castle


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I've been a devout Tigers fan for a little over 50 years, and during that time I've taken loads of criticism from Reds fans, White Sox fans, Indians fans (which particularly stung),  as well as others,... over their perceptions of our ineptness.  Never  lost faith.

But, with the organization currently in the mess it's in, it's like all those criticisms now ring true, in undeniable fashion. In years past, there usually was some indication  from the top that they wanted to win, and were willing to do something about it. I just don't see that anymore.   I feel like the fans are being hustled. 

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The Tigers literally gave away all their best players for absolutely nobody like 4 years ago. And this morning you woke up and decided you needed a thread about how the Tigers aren't trying? Am I missing something here? 

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On a side note, it's not easy to defend them here in LA either. I'm surrounded by Dodgers fans. They always ask how the Tigers are doing. When I tell them they suck, they all act surprised. 

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In the early 70's, we had Lolich and Coleman, and Eddie Brinkman's defensive prowess, bolstered by the last hurrah of the bunch from 1968. In the later 70's, it wasn't a particularly good time for winning, but we had the bird....and things were about to get better.

The 1980s were great, I remember moving to Atlanta in 1983 and how everyone would  laugh upon learning I was a Tigers fan. 

The early 90's was palatable with "Sparky's Fence busters",  had that team any decent pitching, it might have gone places.

The late 90's and early 00's were a dark ages of sorts,  . I remember picking up the paper one day and reading that the Tigers had made some guy named Verlander their top pick, and I recall thinking at the time that it sounded more  like the name of a beer from deep in the woods in North Wisconsin.

Thankfully, Ilitch Sr stepped up, and brought-in capable talent. Ending the dread. For that I am grateful. Perhaps even a little spoiled.

I tried to remain optimistic during the sell-off, trying to believe the alibi that it was a sacrifice necessary  for our "future", albeit one more stark and drastic than most other organizations expect their fans to endure.  Now I am convinced the sacrifice might have been made more  for Chris Ilitch's  ambitions for his "future",  than for any purposes  designed to bring good baseball to Detroit. I sincerely feel as though I was conned with the payroll dump disguised as a rebuild.

If I'm wrong about that, let him prove it. Time for ownership to again "step up", and prove there is sincerity in their words. Otherwise, my life remaining is short, I don't have 10 years left to wait. So if I seem impatient, now you know why.

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11 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Ask your Indian fan friends when was the last time they won the World Series.  

It was somewhat easier to reconcile their critiques coming from the outside.  But now, as returning memories, they are coming from within...much harder to deal with. 

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15 minutes ago, Yoda said:

The Tigers literally gave away all their best players for absolutely nobody like 4 years ago. And this morning you woke up and decided you needed a thread about how the Tigers aren't trying? Am I missing something here? 

I guess it took this long for my gullibility to wear-off?  

Patience now exhausted, it's time to start beating the drums.

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14 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

In the early 70's, we had Lolich and Coleman, and Eddie Brinkman's defensive prowess, bolstered by the last hurrah of the bunch from 1968. In the later 70's, it wasn't a particularly good time for winning, but we hand the bird....and things were about to get better.

The 1980s were great, I remember moving to Atlanta in 1983 and how everyone would  laugh upon learning I was a Tigers fan. 

The early 90's was palatable with "Sparky's Fence busters",  had that team any decent pitching, it might have gone places.

The late 90's and early 00's were a dark ages of sorts,  . I remember picking up the paper one day and reading that the Tigers had made some guy named Verlander their top pick, and I recall thinking at the time that it sounded more  like the name of a beer from deep in the woods in North Wisconsin.

Thankfully, Ilitch Sr stepped up, and brought-in capable talent. Ending the dread. For that I am grateful. Perhaps even a little spoiled.

I tried to remain optimistic during the sell-off, trying to believe the alibi that it was a sacrifice necessary  for our "future", albeit one more stark and drastic than most other organizations expect their fans to endure.  Now I am convinced the sacrifice might have been made more  for Chris Ilitch's  ambitions for his "future",  than for any purposes  designed to bring good baseball to Detroit. I sincerely feel as though I was conned with the payroll dump disguised as a rebuild.

If I'm wrong about that, let him prove it. Time for ownership to again "step up", and prove there is sincerity in their words. Otherwise, my life remaining is short, I don't have 10 years left to wait. So if I seem impatient, now you know why.

Completely agree. I just thought it seemed obvious a couple years ago that they didn't really care. They keep pushing the "we will spend" timeline back and it will probably keep being pushed back. Who knows. 

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15 minutes ago, Yoda said:

On a side note, it's not easy to defend them here in LA either. I'm surrounded by Dodgers fans. 

I lived in Torrance 1992-2003. And whenever Dodgers fans would get overly boisterous, I would start talking "Kirk Gibson", and we'd generally find we had enough in common to coexist. 

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And almost no-one but the current "have's" (i.e. those with WS ambitions for this year) want to do much of anything now until the new CBA is in place. There is a lot of anticipation that there will either be a long strike or at least major changes in the economic structure. The probability of either is likely smaller than owners think (hope?!) but it gives them one more reason to tread water for now.

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49 minutes ago, Yoda said:

The Tigers literally gave away all their best players for absolutely nobody like 4 years ago. And this morning you woke up and decided you needed a thread about how the Tigers aren't trying? Am I missing something here? 

I decided to revisit this post, and expand on my answer a bit.

I tried to be positive about the "rebuild". I wanted to believe the organization had a plan, and that brighter days were ahead. So, I was willing to temper my lust for winning, with a little patience.

Trading Price for Boyd (and the other salary-dump trades) were supposedly part of some master plan to revitalize the organization. I wanted to believe.

But, now that Boyd has come along, and  there is talk of trading him for prospects?  I'm not particularly bonkers over Boyd. I'm happy that he is having success this season, yet have not built any shrines to him in my spare bedroom.

So, my protests over trading him are not so much that I feel attachment to him, it's just that as the fruit of one of our first sacrifices,  he is SUPPOSED to be part of the solution.  Any talk of trading him, all I hear is "we aren't ready to commit to winning yet".

So yeah, THAT'S WHY I ROLLED OUT OF BED THIS MORNING and decided to punish you thumbscrollers with yet another thread to scroll past, it's because the recent buzz about dealing Boyd for nobodies has suddenly made the discussion for any return to success seem more urgent.  Hope this helps

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5 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

I decided to revisit this post, and expand on my answer a bit.

I tried to be positive about the "rebuild". I wanted to believe the organization had a plan, and that brighter days were ahead. So, I was willing to temper my lust for winning, with a little patience.

Trading Price for Boyd (and the other salary-dump trades) were supposedly part of some master plan to revitalize the organization. I wanted to believe.

But, now that Boyd has come along, and  there is talk of trading him for prospects?  I'm not particularly bonkers over Boyd. I'm happy that he is having success this season, yet have not built any shrines to him in my spare bedroom.

So, my protests over trading him are not so much that I feel attachment to him, it's just that as the fruit of one of our first sacrifices,  he is SUPPOSED to be part of the solution.  Any talk of trading him, all I hear is "we aren't ready to commit to winning yet".

So yeah, THAT'S WHY I ROLLED OUT OF BED THIS MORNING and decided to punish you thumbscrollers with yet another thread to scroll past, it's because the recent buzz about dealing Boyd for nobodies has suddenly made the discussion for any return to success seem more urgent.  Hope this helps

Don't watch the McCoskey-Henning video about Al Avila this in The Detroit News. Apologist. 

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55 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

. There is a lot of anticipation that there will either be a long strike or at least major changes in the economic structure. The probability of either is likely smaller than owners think (hope?!) but it gives them one more reason to tread water for now.

And don't forget Covid. That's a convenient apron for them to hide behind too.

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

Completely agree. I just thought it seemed obvious a couple years ago that they didn't really care. They keep pushing the "we will spend" timeline back and it will probably keep being pushed back. Who knows. 

I thought the Randy Smith era was just as bad as far as incompetence but this era is more depressing.  It might just be because  I have become more cynical. I don't know.  

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

The Tigers literally gave away all their best players for absolutely nobody like 4 years ago. And this morning you woke up and decided you needed a thread about how the Tigers aren't trying? Am I missing something here? 

But...but...all the money they saved. And cutting the cost of tickets to watch a AAAA team play. Oh wait, they didn't lower prices? Huh, you gotta spend money to make money, Chris.

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2 hours ago, Yoda said:

The Tigers literally gave away all their best players for absolutely nobody like 4 years ago. And this morning you woke up and decided you needed a thread about how the Tigers aren't trying? Am I missing something here? 

ha

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I thought the Randy Smith era was just as bad as far as incompetence but this era is more depressing.  It might just be because  I have become more cynical. I don't know.  

Like the OP, you're older and realize you don't have all the time in the world left. That's my deal, too. ****, man, I'm ****ing sixty this year. That's definitely why this relentless horse**** is so depressing for me.

I continue to believe that Al Avila has a handshake agreement to remain employed as the GM until the team is sold, because he's the loyal lapdog, and the Ilitches have demonstrated they value that loyalty. If Ilitch does bow to the (finally) mounting pressure, I'd bet he just kicks Avila upstairs and installs Chadd or Littlefield, probably the latter because he has "experience", although the former does have "assistant general manager" in his title, so maybe they just shift everyone up one slot like they did in 2015.

The last thing I see Ilitch doing is brooming the entire front office and replacing them with analytic hotshots because, frankly, I don't think the Tigers part of the empire is the top priority for him. I don't think it's even his second priority. If that's true, then winning might well be simply a "nice to have" that won't impact the profitability of the empire one way or the other. This particular line item, one that all of us happen to care deeply about, is nicely profitable for Ilitch Holdings as is, without any need for additional capital investment.

Point being, I believe nothing changes until a sale, so that's what I'm rooting for, and have been for three years now. It's about time other people started catching up with that idea.

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7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Like the OP, you're older and realize you don't have all the time in the world left. That's my deal, too. That's definitely why it's depressing for me.

 

I feel like I may have a lot of time left in the world, but I think you may have a point there.  I have more time behind me than I have ahead of me, so it's easier to see my mortality or at least my declining years.  I also have no children so I don't really care to look far into the future.  I want an entertaining team now!

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15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Like the OP, you're older and realize you don't have all the time in the world left. That's my deal, too. ****, man, I'm ****ing sixty this year. That's definitely why this relentless horse**** is so depressing for me.

I continue to believe that Al Avila has a handshake agreement to remain employed as the GM until the team is sold, because he's the loyal lapdog, and the Ilitches have demonstrated they value that loyalty. If Ilitch does bow to the (finally) mounting pressure, I'd bet he just kicks Avila upstairs and installs Chadd or Littlefield, probably the latter because he has "experience". The last thing I see him doing is brooming the entire front office and replacing them with analytic hotshots because, frankly, I don't think the Tigers part of the empire is the top priority for him. I don't think it's even his second priority. If that's true, then winning might well be simply a "nice to have" that won't impact the profitability of the empire one way or the other. This particular line item, one that all of us happen to care deeply about, is nicely profitable for Ilitch Holdings as is, without any need for additional capital investment.

Point being, I believe nothing changes until a sale, so that's what I'm rooting for, and have been for three years now. It's about time other people started catching up with that idea.

The team would be easier to sell without Cabrera's overinflated contract. We may have to wait until then.

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32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Point being, I believe nothing changes until a sale, so that's what I'm rooting for, and have been for three years now. It's about time other people started catching up with that idea.

So, with a sale and move to Las Vegas, do you think they keep the name "Tigers", or do you have some other name in mind?

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50 minutes ago, chasfh said:

ha

 

2bb4da20c0395e7c995d07fa943850ca.jpg

Ooooooooh, let me guess. Old guy laughs at people using the word "literally" different from how it was used when he was a kid. Hilarious! 

Quote

One of the definitions of literally that we provide is "in effect, virtually—used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible." Some find this objectionable on the grounds that it is not the primary meaning of the word, "with the meaning of each individual word given exactly." However, this extended definition of literally is commonly used and is not quite the same meaning as figuratively ("with a meaning that is metaphorical rather than literal").

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

 

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3 minutes ago, Yoda said:

 

2bb4da20c0395e7c995d07fa943850ca.jpg

Ooooooooh, let me guess. Old guy laughs at people using the word "literally" different from how it was used when he was a kid. Hilarious! 

 

lol

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8 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

So, with a sale and move to Las Vegas, do you think they keep the name "Tigers", or do you have some other name in mind?

If they keep the team, this could be the new logo:

simpsons-roy.jpg?itok=8AW9yvjK

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