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Down on the farm 2021


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31 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Silly comp. Kelenic's slump at the majors had nothing to do with his hitting ability. Projecting that onto another player is pretty useless. 

similar age, similar draft position, similar minor league production.  

its not a silly comp at all, unless you consider all comps to be silly because every player is unique.

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Kelenic is just another example of how difficult is for young players to hit in the majors.  Young players typically struggle in their first exposure to the majors and I don't think there is a reliable way to know which ones won't.   

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17 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Kelenic is just another example of how difficult is for young players to hit in the majors.  Young players typically struggle in their first exposure to the majors and I don't think there is a reliable way to know which ones won't.   

Because it's just as likely to be mental. And the whole age, draft position, etc. comps don't matter when it comes to that. 

Kelenic was likely just pressing too hard. He should have figured it out in 90 PA's but some don't. Nobody here knows if that will happen to Greene or Tork and draft position has nothing to do with it. Tork at least went through that already this year and figured out how to stop trying too hard and just hit. 

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27 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Mike Trout had a .672 OPS in his first 135 PA.  

I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on whether or not he should have been called up at the time. If he thinks it helped or hurt him. I gotta think most would think it helped. 

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Just now, Yoda said:

I'd be curious to hear his thoughts on whether or not he should have been called up at the time. If he thinks it helped or hurt him. I gotta think most would think it helped. 

I am just saying that most hitters struggle out of the gate.  it's not likely that Dingler, Torkelson and Greene are all going to come up on August 1 and turn the Tigers into a juggernaut right way as one poster suggested.  

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25 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Speaking of prospects getting called up I'm excited to see how uber prospect Wander Franco looks in his debut tonight.   

Wander is good example of how what a player does at lower levels is not all that much help in making final predictions. Franco at 19 was doing things that no-one had even dreamed of before. By AAA his numbers are still great, but not really anything nearly so otherworldly as the predictions about him were 2 yrs ago - To look at his AAA K/BB rate today (21/12) there is nothing that would tell you he once went 100 AB without a K (or maybe 100 pitches without a swing and miss? or whatever exactly it was that he did that I recall no-one could believe was possible)

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6 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I am just saying that most hitters struggle out of the gate.  it's not likely that Dingler, Torkelson and Greene are all going to come up on August 1 and turn the Tigers into a juggernaut right way as one poster suggested.  

Yup. But then again, how do you figure Baddoo? He slumped for about 50 AB but since then has found his footing again. 50 AB is some struggle but not really all that much! Of course he may yet flame out but there is really no argument that he should be playing in the minors as of this moment.

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20 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yup. But then again, how do you figure Baddoo? He slumped for about 50 AB but since then has found his footing again. 50 AB is some struggle but not really all that much! Of course he may yet flame out but there is really no argument that he should be playing in the minors as of this moment.

You can't explain any of it, but I wonder if lesser prospects like Baddoo have an easier time because pitchers won't show them their best stuff initially whereas a MLB pitcher might be quicker to challenge a top prospect like Torkelson.   

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Jo Adell is another recent top 10 OF prospect that tore through the minors and struggled in MLB. I'm fine taking a slow approach with Greene. Andrew Vaughn is not quite at the level of a prospect as Tork is, but he's the closest comp in recent years, and he's only hitting league average this year.

I'm penciling them in as starters in 2023, but not expecting much prior to that. I think Tork might be closer to MLB than Greene, actually, but would expect both to be brought up around the same time.

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6 minutes ago, Scottwood said:

Jo Adell is another recent top 10 OF prospect that tore through the minors and struggled in MLB. I'm fine taking a slow approach with Greene. Andrew Vaughn is not quite at the level of a prospect as Tork is, but he's the closest comp in recent years, and he's only hitting league average this year.

Of course at too many spots in the lineup,  league average hitters would be a luxury for the Tigers right now! :dead:

I tend to think that as long as a guy can keep his head above water - which I would define as hitting at  ~220 and ~35% K, from the player's perspective his development is just as well off for seeing  MLB pitching. Most teams won't want to bring a player up until he is better than that (or won't give him regular PA) because they have someone performing at that level or above already. So I think at AAA as many guys are held down because they can't help their MLB team win as because it would actually hurt their development to go against MLB arms. In a rebuild that should not be as great a consideration. There are obvious exceptions like a guy who decides he needs to retool a swing or something where stepping back to less challenging pitching makes sense.

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I am just saying that most hitters struggle out of the gate.  it's not likely that Dingler, Torkelson and Greene are all going to come up on August 1 and turn the Tigers into a juggernaut right way as one poster suggested.  

Oh I know. I was just thinking out loud. 

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1 hour ago, socaltiger said:

It "seems" to me without doing any research that good players either have "it" or they don't. Don't most long term stars either skip AAA or play there very briefly ?

Yes and yes. AA is pretty commonly considered more of a challenge due to the amount of low-ceiling guys in AAA. 

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On 5/30/2021 at 6:01 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

yeah - in general making the basket catch out front instead of diving is a bit of a lost art in baseball anymore (Austin 26-Rdrs-Without-Diving Jackson says HI). I'm more impressed by Greene's ability to go back. 

Super 70s Sports (@Super70sSports) | Twitter | Character actor, Actors,  Sports

"Nice catch Hayes. Don't ever &(*)^(* do it again"

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3 minutes ago, djhutch said:

Super 70s Sports (@Super70sSports) | Twitter | Character actor, Actors,  Sports

"Nice catch Hayes. Don't ever &(*)^(* do it again"

"hey Coach, If I'm going to use that basket catch on those tough ones when it's the best chance available, I have to keep in practice when it isn't.......":wink:

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I don't think the Tigers are going to worry about starting clocks.  The nucleus of their team is young starting pitchers who are already having success.  When a team has pitchers in place, they might be inclined to get aggressive because they need to take advantage of them while they are still healthy.  I expect them to attempt to put a competitive team on the field next year.  It might end up being too early, but I don't think they will view it as another rebuilding year.  

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3 hours ago, socaltiger said:

It "seems" to me without doing any research that good players either have "it" or they don't. Don't most long term stars either skip AAA or play there very briefly ?

Players develop at all different rates. Sometimes it takes a while for things to click. The players that last are able to continually make adjustments.

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6 hours ago, Scottwood said:

Jo Adell is another recent top 10 OF prospect that tore through the minors and struggled in MLB. I'm fine taking a slow approach with Greene. Andrew Vaughn is not quite at the level of a prospect as Tork is, but he's the closest comp in recent years, and he's only hitting league average this year.

I'm penciling them in as starters in 2023, but not expecting much prior to that. I think Tork might be closer to MLB than Greene, actually, but would expect both to be brought up around the same time.

League average, or even slightly below that, would be an improvement at most positions on this Tiger team. 

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7 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I am just saying that most hitters struggle out of the gate.  it's not likely that Dingler, Torkelson and Greene are all going to come up on August 1 and turn the Tigers into a juggernaut right way as one poster suggested.  

I don't believe I characterized anything as "juggernaut".

In fact... I'm pretty certain I called getting them up to the Tigers "status quo".

As in... The original question asked was when will we ever get to be a top 15 offense again. As Yoda pointed out, we are a top 15 offense in May and June. And what did I say about calling up these three kids? That we'd be a "top half" offense. In other words, top 15... same as we are the past 6+ weeks.

Status Quo.

... doesn't exactly equal "juggernaut".

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7 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yup. But then again, how do you figure Baddoo? He slumped for about 50 AB but since then has found his footing again. 50 AB is some struggle but not really all that much! Of course he may yet flame out but there is really no argument that he should be playing in the minors as of this moment.

I believe:

Tork will have about 50-ish PA's where he struggles acclimating to MLB pitching. But... once he catches up, I think he'll be almost as dangerous a hitter as he was in the minors. Call it .800-.850-ish OPS this year. You know... a juggernaut. (:wink:) But it won't be until next year or 2023 where he really breaks out (guessing...). I think he has an extremely high hit tool, so it won't take very long for him to start hitting at his highest level. Just my opinion.

Greene I think will take the longest to acclimate to MLB pitching, it seems that it takes him some time before he gets into a groove... But that's OK as long as he still has patience and can get a fair amount of walks to keep his OBP high. I don't need to see a power breakout just yet, so long as he can still OBP .350-ish (let's say .240-.250 BA with enough walks to make up the difference) and a .700-ish OPS. It also might not be until 2023-ish that he reaches his full hitting potential but again, that's OK if he's contributing in other ways. And I think Hinch can still protect him a bit by having Grossman face LH'ers and any particularly nasty RH'ers...

Dingler I think will be somewhere in the middle. He seems to be acclimating pretty quickly at each level... just isn't as dominant as either Tork or Greene. Still OK. He would be replacing Haase (who is recently and swiftly coming back down to earth) AB's or Rogers AB's.

Greene would be replacing Mazara's AB's and some of Grossman's AB's. Tork would be replacing a chunk of Miggy's AB's and some of the other crappy 1B AB's... And Dingler replaces a lot of Haase & Rogers AB's. I don't see a losing situation here. Based on my firm belief that all three of these guys will do enough in MLB to warrant getting exposed this year to MLB pitching...

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