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Does Al Avila make it to Memorial Day 2021


ROMAD1
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Its amazing how much this thread resembles the "cleanup on aisle lunatic" thread in the politics forum.   There is nobody fighting the central premise.  Just a lot of "right ons" and arguing around the edges of the frustrating realities.

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11 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

Let's sum it up simply :

Al Avilia traded a HOF pitcher and the best pitcher in the history of the Detroit Tigers for a pile of trash. And he paid $12,000,000.00 for the right to do so. 

$16M, but who's counting

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4 hours ago, Buddha said:

that says more about WAR as a valuable stat than it does about jd martinez as a valuable player.

in 2016 martinez hit 307/373/535 and in 2017 for the tigers he hit 305/388/630!

who is more valuable, jd martinez doing that or jason heyward playing good right field defense while hitting .250?

right field hitting is more valuable than right field defense.  much more valuable.  and dont give me any gifs of torii hunter gifting ortiz a home run either.

Absolutely!!!!

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I was told that trading him was the only option and that corner outfielders had no value that year, so be happy with what they got.  

That was a weird year. Everyone was looking for pitching. Martinez was viewed as a luxury, so everyone in the industry kept saying, because he couldn't play defense and no one really needed more offense. Still can't believe Avila pulled the trigger on that trade weeks before the deadline for middling prospects from a lousy system. It was unsettling then and even more unsettling now. 

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10 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

That was a weird year. Everyone was looking for pitching. Martinez was viewed as a luxury, so everyone in the industry kept saying, because he couldn't play defense and no one really needed more offense. Still can't believe Avila pulled the trigger on that trade weeks before the deadline for middling prospects from a lousy system. It was unsettling then and even more unsettling now. 

Him pulling the trigger so early is what really baffled me at the time.  For starters we were only 4 and a half back of the playoffs at the time.  It's a long shot but maybe we have a hot week and a half and don't have to sell at the deadline? What does it really hurt to atleast try playing it out before dumping your best hitter?  And for another, teams generally seem to get more desperate at the deadline so maybe we could've gotten more if we waited?

If the guys we got were viewed as good prospects at the time I could see maybe not wanting to risk losing them so just do the deal but that wasn't the case.   

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8 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Him pulling the trigger so early is what really baffled me at the time.  For starters we were only 4 and a half back of the playoffs at the time.  It's a long shot but maybe we have a hot week and a half and don't have to sell at the deadline? What does it really hurt to atleast try playing it out before dumping your best hitter?  And for another, teams generally seem to get more desperate at the deadline so maybe we could've gotten more if we waited?

If the guys we got were viewed as good prospects at the time I could see maybe not wanting to risk losing them so just do the deal but that wasn't the case.   

and jd slugged 720 for arizona!!!!

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Him pulling the trigger so early is what really baffled me at the time.  For starters we were only 4 and a half back of the playoffs at the time.  It's a long shot but maybe we have a hot week and a half and don't have to sell at the deadline? What does it really hurt to atleast try playing it out before dumping your best hitter?  And for another, teams generally seem to get more desperate at the deadline so maybe we could've gotten more if we waited?

I seem to recall it being Avila who got more desperate at the deadline.

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9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I seem to recall it being Avila who got more desperate at the deadline.

He got a good return for Justin Wilson at the July deadline and  held onto Verlander.   Either nobody wanted Verlander then or he wasn't too desperate.

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when you look back it's doubly absurd because the guys they moved, Verlander, Martinez and Upton, have been productive since we moved them, while contracts we needed to get out from under: Cabrera, Zimmermann and the caboose from Fielder's deal, they've not saved a cent on - so what was the point in the end? 

Then on top of that they have let economical players walk who are at least bonafide major leaguers like Iglesias and McCann, and even Avila - who they had the opportunity to sign to reasonable deals, because they deluded themselves (and us) into believing they had adequate replacements coming up - which they did not.  

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I dont want to hear about COVID.  All 30 teams had the same dilemma.   No excuse.   

 

I was looking at the Dodgers roster.  People think because they have such a high payroll that they must have signed a bunch of free agents, but it's Betts and Bauer,  the other high-priced guys are either their own draft picks or amateur free agents they signed.  

Can we get someone from that organization please?   

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14 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

More tea leaves that are easier to read than a little golden book.

 

He's strongest point is probably that with revenue capped and possible big changes in the CBA, Ilitch may be happy to tread water at least another year. Still the 'cheap' argument does even cover it. It really wouldn't cost significant dollars to replace Avila with someone who could get get more bang for the bucks the org is spending. A good draft doesn't cost anymore than a bad one. Which goes back the nub of the matter: Whether it is because Ilitch is a total philistine or whether he is really all in on the job he feels Avila is doing, he probably isn't likely to make a change. Which is really all that McCosky  was saying the other day.

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7 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

He's strongest point is probably that with revenue capped and possible big changes in the CBA, Ilitch may be happy to tread water at least another year. Still the 'cheap' argument does even cover it. It really wouldn't cost significant dollars to replace Avila with someone who could get get more bang for the bucks the org is spending. A good draft doesn't cost anymore than a bad one. Which goes back the nub of the matter: Whether it is because Ilitch is a total philistine or whether he is really all in on the job he feels Avila is doing, he probably isn't likely to make a change. Which is really all that McCosky  was saying the other day.

If a salary cap is any part of the owners plan, we won't see baseball next year.   

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8 hours ago, chasfh said:

It seems pretty clear that it was about getting out from under the money.

Absolutely the truth. It was a salary dump from square one,.... as soon as they found a trade partner willing to absorb an acceptable portion of the contract, they pulled the trigger, and all the hype claiming "for our future"  was just smoke to dupe the truly gullible.

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On 5/5/2021 at 10:59 AM, tiger337 said:

JD Martinez was one of the two best hitters in my 50 years following the Tigers.  I hated that trade.  I also hated the trade of the best Tigers pitcher of my lifetime.  

For the last few years we could have had, and could still have, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, J.D. Martinez, and Nick Castellanos.

Since leaving the Tigers:

Scherzer has been Top Five in the Cy Young voting in every full season, with two Cy Young Awards and a World Series win.  So far this year he has a 2.54 ERA, .846 WHIP, and 157 ERA+.

Verlander has a Cy Young Award and a runner-up for the CYA, a World Series victory, and ERA+ of 389, 164, 179, and 188.

J.D. has had OPS+ figures of 172, 170, 173, and 140, and has a World Series win.  And so far this year he is batting .348 with an OPS of 1.127 and OPS+ of 211.  He is leading the Majors in Home Runs, RBIs, and Total Bases, and leading the American League in Doubles and Runs.

Castellanos had a 154 OPS+ for the Cubs in 2019, and so far this year is batting .324, with an OPS of 1.008 and OPS+ of 158.

And the current Tigers are a historically awful team that is tied for both the worst average of Runs Scored Per Game and the worst Team ERA in the Majors, with a roster full of  guys whose names I have trouble remembering, many of them being interchangeably bad.  

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The narrative of what we could have had if we kept those players is irrelevant. The org wasn't going to pay them. The bigger issue is the garbage we got for them. 

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2 minutes ago, Yoda said:

The narrative of what we could have had if we kept those players is irrelevant. The org wasn't going to pay them. The bigger issue is the garbage we got for them. 

We only know that Dave would have done better

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