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DumberAndLeaner

Trade Boyd for Prospects at Deadline?

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

You don't think they should trade him for a toolsy young infielder with no plate discipline?  

only if they can couple that with a hard throwing lefty with control issues!

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On 5/1/2021 at 12:30 PM, DumberAndLeaner said:

Now that Boyd is productive,  shouldn't  he be part of that future?  Or are we not quite ready to start paying for talent? Maybe its just better to push the timeline further back, and continue offloading talent instead of paying to retain it.

How much future does a soft-tossing 30-year-old lefty with so-so peripherals have remaining?

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On 5/4/2021 at 11:05 AM, chasfh said:

How much future does a soft-tossing 30-year-old lefty with so-so peripherals have remaining?

I think you have to look at what we are left with if the Tigers trade him. He seems to be the best we have right now,  so how does dumping him just to avoid a big payday make the Tigers a better ballclub?

At some point if we are to expect to improve, then the organization must abandon their obsession with "cheap", and start paying to retain talent.   

I'm through excusing "cheap"  for a blind promise of a better tomorrow.   The "rebuild" has been a subterfuge.  If the organization was spending big money and still failing, then I'd give them credit for at least trying. But the reality being what it is, I believe they are shafting the fanbase, and laughing all the way to the bank.

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He is not the talent you retain....he's aged out of the Tigers paying him. The next time the Tigers win, half of their prospects will be aged out. That's why this rebuild is in shambles.

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7 minutes ago, kdog said:

He is not the talent you retain....he's aged out of the Tigers paying him. The next time the Tigers win, half of their prospects will be aged out. That's why this rebuild is in shambles.

Sorry, but I'm through rationalizing defenses for this organization.  if Boyd wasn't the best we have right now (such as the case may be).... then I might be more sympathetic to your reasoning.  IMO, Dumping him will not make us better, it will just prolong the "thriftiness"  bubble.

 

If we had a stable full of great arms, and he was standing in the way of their progress,  then I might give your argument more serious consideration.

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7 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Sorry, but I'm through rationalizing defenses for this organization.  if Boyd wasn't the best we have right now (such as the case may be).... then I might be more sympathetic to your reasoning.  IMO, Dumping him will not make us better, it will just prolong the "thriftiness"  bubble.

 

If we had a stable full of great arms, and he was standing in the way of their progress,  then I might give your argument more serious consideration.

You don't compound this disaster by making bad decisions like signing a 30 year old pitcher when you are years away from competing. You actually go on the free agent market and sign a few hitters to give your fans a more competent lineup. I don't understand the fixation with Boyd. He's an ok pitcher..

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4 minutes ago, kdog said:

...  I don't understand the fixation with Boyd. He's an ok pitcher..

At best.

The fixation is pretty comical...

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1 hour ago, kdog said:

. I don't understand the fixation with Boyd.

He might actually win a game now and then. That makes being a fan less uncomfortable.   If we are "years away from competing" then  what's the harm  from keeping him?  Saving money for Chris ilitch is pretty far down on my list of priorities, 

 

The "fixation", as you put it, is in not drinking the kool-aide* and allowing these con artists to keep deluding us.

 

* note to Oblong, this is a reference to  Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, not to Jim Jones.

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3 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

At best.

The fixation is pretty comical...

I guess you prefer these faded "high potential up side" pitchers we scrape up for nothing?  Next season's opening day pitcher, "...making his debut in a tigers uniform,...XXXX"  ROFL!!

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3 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

He might actually win a game now and then. That makes being a fan less uncomfortable.   If we are "years away from competing" then  what's the harm  from keeping him?  Saving money for Chris ilitch is pretty far down on my list of priorities, 

 

The "fixation", as you put it, is in not drinking the kool-aide* and allowing these con artists to keep deluding us.

 

* note to Oblong, this is a reference to  Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, not to Jim Jones.

Ok I don't get it..but ok.

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1 minute ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

I guess you prefer these ...

I prefer not to fixate on these less-than-league average 30+ year old pitchers that get this team nowhere fast. I have no interest here whatsoever.

Apparently, you do.

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7 minutes ago, kdog said:

Ok I don't get it..but ok.

Well, let's back up a bit, exploring your comment that "we are years from competing", how does retaining Boyd harm such a team? That's what I don't get about those of you laboring to defend little Itch's cheapness.

Boyd isn't going to land us an ace in trade, so the  "it's for our future:"  argument holds zero water.
 

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2 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I prefer not to fixate on these less-than-league average 30+ year old pitchers that get this team nowhere fast. I have no interest here whatsoever.

Apparently, you do.

When he's the best on the team we have, simply shipping him off to dodge payroll is a fools errand.

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9 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Well, let's back up a bit, exploring your comment that "we are years from competing", how does retaining Boyd harm such a team? That's what I don't get about those of you laboring to defend little Itch's cheapness.

Boyd isn't going to land us an ace in trade, so the  "it's for our future:"  argument holds zero water.
 

I'd implore you to look at my other posts if you think I've ever defended Christopher 'failson' Ilitch.

Giving him money guarantees him a roster spot on a horrible team when frankly he's better off on a good team as a 4th starter. He isn't going to land us much(doesn't have much value) and Avila is making the trade. They should have signed him 3 years ago. Now it's too late and they have to start over. 

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Boyd would probably prefer to be on another team. But that's not where my "fixation" is grounded.

As it stands right now, Boyd (this season)  has a better ERA than Kershaw, Kluber,  Scherzer,  Bauer, and several others who most teams would be delighted to have on their roster. Sending away our "best" seems to be a broken record for this organization.

Time to change the music, no excuses accepted  just because they are not ready to spend just yet...Time for them to pay to retain talent....THAT is my "fixation:

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Hey, if we are going to lose 110 games anyway,   only after they are carrying a payroll north of $180 million,  can I be certain that  I'm not the only one suffering....hows THAT for fixated?  xD

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Oh boy, prospects! This team is great at identifying and cultivating talent! We’re in fat city for sure!! I’m saving up for my World Series tickets! 

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When  the Royals won the world series on a shoestring budget, that made a lot of owners envious. I understand the Tiger's organization wanting to go "there", but they went about it all wrong.

Unloading big paychecks by trading anyone having marketable  talent, while letting the rest walk (a salary dump, in other words) likely appeared to be the most expeditious path to getting there. Fans be damned.   They gambled that their restructuring would pan out, and fans eventually  would forgive them once a return to winning ways was established.

As with most things in life, balance is key. Extremes usually have consequences, and that is our current predicament...No one in a decision making capacity thought it important to maintain proficiency sufficient to play the game properly.

Since our brain trust  has proven itself  incompetent in fielding a low-cost roster capable of competing,  perhaps now would be a good time  to "put the training wheels back on" and spend some money for proven talent, at least until such time as the brain trust figures out what they are doing wrong? (sarcasm intended).

Then, once AA has unlocked the secret sauce that has worked so well in KC, we can transition gradually to the new model without being a laughing stock?

Return to spending will  yield improvement

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I feel dumber and leaner (in spirit) for having spent any time whatsoever in this thread...

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Looking at the return we got for Verlander, do you REALLY think this bunch is capable to trade Boyd for anything worth bragging about?

Of course, once one acknowledges that the Verlander trade was primarily a salary dump, with possible perks, then trading Boyd in the same context,  has similarity difficult to ignore.

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desperately holding onto mediocre talent is the hallmark of a crappy organization

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1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

desperately holding onto mediocre talent is the hallmark of a crappy organization

How far-fetched in this scenario? The Tigers resign Scherzer to a 7-8 year deal in 2014, trade Cabrera for prospects that same year, extend JD Martinez for 5-6 years, never sign Zimmerman, and never trade Verlander. This is all hindsight is 20-20 stuff and it's unlikely it would ever played out this way, but successful franchises keep the guys they should keep and let go of the guys they shouldn't. The Tigers did the opposite, 

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1 hour ago, SeattleMike said:

How far-fetched in this scenario? The Tigers resign Scherzer to a 7-8 year deal in 2014, trade Cabrera for prospects that same year, extend JD Martinez for 5-6 years, never sign Zimmerman, and never trade Verlander. This is all hindsight is 20-20 stuff and it's unlikely it would ever played out this way, but successful franchises keep the guys they should keep and let go of the guys they shouldn't. The Tigers did the opposite, 

Then we would be the Saint Louis Cardinals 

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Purging a ballclub of all  capable talent in the singleminded  pursuit of "cheap and controllable" results in an even crappier organization.

But hey, if Ronny Rodriguez and Brandon Dixon float your boat, then "happy sailing"...lol!

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