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DumberAndLeaner

Trade Boyd for Prospects at Deadline?

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Anybody else hear anything about this possibility?  The White Sox announcers were "talking up" this possibility during the broadcast of Tuesday night's game. And if this happens I'll be completely down on the organization.  Although it certainly would fit in with the general impression I've gathered about Chris "I'd rather spend my money on casinos"  Ilitch the past couple years.

If this comes to fruition, I guess it would be a convenient excuse to push the timeline  for any return to competitiveness back  additional  years?

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Trade anything not nailed down. He's a free agent after '22.

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That's

16 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I don't think they'll get much for him.  

Al's wheelhouse.

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Every player should be available on a non-contender. The only question is whether the return is worth it. Keep him if it’s not, trade him if it is. 

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First, he has to continue to pitch like he has for at least another month+. Even still, they probably won't get much back if previous trades are any indicator. Generally, id prefer to hang on at this point since they need innings this year and it'll make them more watchable. UNLESS, the return is a solid, bona-fide prospect within a year or two of the majors

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I mean of course it's a possibility. Why would this be a surprise?

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Package Boyd and Candelario and get a Carter Kieboom-type prospect that might just need a change of scenery.

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Between the lack of K's, unsustainable HR rate and the fact that he has had some good starts to seasons before only to fall apart as the year went on makes me extremely skeptical about him going forward and I suspect most teams would feel the same way.  Perhaps Fetters has done something to change him and he will be a solid pitcher from here on out but I'm not counting on it.  

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47 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Between the lack of K's, unsustainable HR rate and the fact that he has had some good starts to seasons before only to fall apart as the year went on makes me extremely skeptical about him going forward and I suspect most teams would feel the same way.  Perhaps Fetters has done something to change him and he will be a solid pitcher from here on out but I'm not counting on it.  

I think Matt fell into the trap of only wanting to use his 'best' pitches last year. That's why his Ks were high but his results were bad. The thing about pitching is that even your worst pitches statistically may be contributing to your overall ability to fool hitters, so you have to be wary about falling into the trap of eliminating pitches just because they have worse outcome probabilities associated with them. Yes, sometime you do need to drop a pitch, but some pitch will always be the least effective one you throw. If you follow that logic to the end you would always end up throwing only one. Your effectiveness is the sum of your total repertoire.

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If they do it had better be for a young Major League talent that fills a key position. We do not have many Major Leaguers and Boyd is one of them.

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6 hours ago, socaltiger said:

If they do it had better be for a young Major League talent that fills a key position. We do not have many Major Leaguers and Boyd is one of them.

Totally agree. IMHO, forget the 'suspects' (good with young MAJOR League talent) as we have few MLB type players. We have a long list of prospects from previous trades - and the percent of the progression towards becoming decent MLB players seems pretty low.

Besides, we have 3 picks in the top 38-40 this year? Hopefully there will be some hits there (down the road) and some of the previous picks and incoming players already acquired via trades can turn things around and develop under the new regime.

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He'll trade Boyd for 3 shortstops who all wind up being moved to a different positions and all have dropoffs in their offensive production in the minors within 18 months.   

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13 hours ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Every player should be available on a non-contender. The only question is whether the return is worth it. Keep him if it’s not, trade him if it is. 

If the future success of the organization is closely tied to retaining Matt Boyd on a short term or a long term basis, they are even in more trouble than it appears.

The Rays may not be the best example, as they are operating under silly budget constraints, but they trade away young talent all the time when doing so makes sense for them.

Of course when Al is making the trade, it is unlikely to be the right decision. Maybe AJ can help in that area.

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When you've got an organization proclaiming  (as the Tigers have the past few years) that it's building towards the future, I don't believe it is at all unreasonable for the fans to look for some indication that progress is being made. Many capable veterans were sacrificed in the (alleged) pursuit of this goal.  Price was traded for Boyd. 

Now that Boyd is productive,  shouldn't  he be part of that future?  Or are we not quite ready to start paying for talent? Maybe its just better to push the timeline further back, and continue offloading talent instead of paying to retain it.

Mize and Torkelson next?  Perhaps this is our organization's devious strategy to motivate the youngsters?  "If you excel, we can trade you to a team intent upon competing, otherwise you'll be stuck here shuttling between Detroit and Toledo until you decide that selling used cars isn't such a bad job after all?  :laugh:

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1 hour ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

When you've got an organization proclaiming  (as the Tigers have the past few years) that it's building towards the future, I don't believe it is at all unreasonable for the fans to look for some indication that progress is being made. Many capable veterans were sacrificed in the (alleged) pursuit of this goal.  Price was traded for Boyd. 

Now that Boyd is productive,  shouldn't  he be part of that future?  Or are we not quite ready to start paying for talent? Maybe its just better to push the timeline forward, and continue offloading talent instead of paying to retain it.

Mize and Torkelson next?  Perhaps this is our organization's devious strategy to motivate the youngsters?  "If you excel, we can trade you to a team intent upon competing, otherwise you'll be stuck here shuttling between Detroit and Toledo until you decide that selling used cars isn't such a bad job after all?  :laugh:

I agree that we should not be in automatic trade everyone mode.  However, Boyd has been shaky and inconsistent, historically, so if his value goes up again, you may want to capitalize if a contending team is willing to pay.  Probably unlikely, though. 

The reason I’d consider moving Candy for help at another position. is that we have Paredes and Tork coming quickly behind him. 

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Because the Tigers have such a great track record trading for prospects.

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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

... The reason I’d consider moving Candy for help at another position. is that we have Paredes and Tork coming quickly behind him. 

I think Tork & Paredes would be better at 1B and 2B.

I wouldn't consider trading Candy until we get someone who pushes him out of a job. That could be a different 1B (FA?) or 2B (Clemens maybe?) that slides one of those guys over to 3rd...

And even then I think I'd rather hold onto Candy and push him into an Enos Cabell role...

If we're going to lose him in FA, when that time comes, if we're not chasing the playoffs then yes, it might be time to look at moving him.

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at this point you might as well just keep boyd rather than let avila trade him for a bunch of nothing like he usually gets.

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I guess that my expectations are just greater than many of you. I want to see them build a roster that is  capable of competing for more than just a long shot at a wild card. "Cheap and controllable" really does not capture my interest. 

I don't care if they trade away the "high potential up side" retreads that they seem to relish, but,. in contrast.... the building blocks that were paid for with proven major league player trades,  trading them away seems to serve but one interest, payroll control.

And I'm just not going to spend for major league baseball  tickets, just to enjoy the "special promotion night"  level of play extravaganzas that they have been offering.  It's time to focus on winning again. Period. 

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FWIW, the discussion by the White Sox announcers which I mentioned in the original post, was not just casual contemplation made in passing. They were talking as if feelers were common knowledge.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

at this point you might as well just keep boyd rather than let avila trade him for a bunch of nothing like he usually gets.

You don't think they should trade him for a toolsy young infielder with no plate discipline?  

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