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2021 REGULAR SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD


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I can easily infer that Littlefield is considered to have done a poor job at PD, and his departure is a good thing for that reason.....can someone expand on this a little?  I realize the Tigers have sucked at player development for a long time, is Littlefield emblematic of that failure?  How so?  Asking for a friend....

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Maybe once Chadd goes, perhaps after the 2023 season, Avila goes with him, and Hinch ends up with the job he's wanted all along, which was known on this very board back in 2003:

 

More likely Menzin

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28 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I can easily infer that Littlefield is considered to have done a poor job at PD, and his departure is a good thing for that reason.....can someone expand on this a little?  I realize the Tigers have sucked at player development for a long time, is Littlefield emblematic of that failure?  How so?  Asking for a friend....

I wouldn't say he sucks, but certainly not top tier. Mediocre would be the word.

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2 hours ago, sabretooth said:

I can easily infer that Littlefield is considered to have done a poor job at PD, and his departure is a good thing for that reason.....can someone expand on this a little?  I realize the Tigers have sucked at player development for a long time, is Littlefield emblematic of that failure?  How so?  Asking for a friend....

How much time do you have?

They were way behind on things that other organizations were doing, using data, etc. It wasn't until people like Graham and Hubbs were brought in 2019-20 offseason that things started to turn around.

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20 hours ago, chasfh said:

Maybe once Chadd goes, perhaps after the 2023 season, Avila goes with him, and Hinch ends up with the job he's wanted all along, which was known on this very board back in 2003:

 

the hiring, success, and promotion of hinch is the best thing to happen to this organization since they hired dombrowski.

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On 8/31/2021 at 7:24 PM, kdog said:

Bookend this with Hinch's comments the other day:

 

I don't think this is anything different from what Avila has been saying from day one - which is that free agency will be supplemental to the team developing most of its talent internally.  I don't think that really says anything at all about how much they will be willing to spend on a particular free agent where an unmet need remains, only that they don't want to end up where they were in 2015 again. Certainly how much they are willing to spend remains an unanswered question, but I don't see these comments as indicating anything one way or the other on it.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I don't think this is anything different from what Avila has been saying from day one - which is that free agency will be supplemental to the team developing most of its talent internally.  I don't think that really says anything at all about how much they will be willing to spend on a particular free agent where an unmet need remains, only that they don't want to end up where they were in 2015 again. Certainly how much they are willing to spend remains an unanswered question, but I don't see these comments as indicating anything one way or the other on it.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good way to set up with negotiations in the offseason to come across as desperate to sign free agents 

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On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 PM, tiger337 said:

That is always the problem when you build around pitching.  It can work, but it's risky.  

Tell me about it.

Also, ask the post-2015 Mets about building around iptching.

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13 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Tell me about it.

Also, ask the post-2015 Mets about building around iptching.

All of its risky. THe cubs build around those high pick hitters. Won it all, got bounced a couple times early. Now, 5 years later is all completely dismantled and their heading for a 3 to 5 year rebuild. 

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I was thinking about these moves in the front office and here's my take:

Avila went hard the other way to do what he could to make the team better analytically.  They wanted to be in that space.  At the same time that kind of thing takes time to implement.  Ausmus talked about this when he left, the systems are being built, but you don't just flip a switch.  

He preached patience with Ilitch and got it.  He gambled that it would pay off and the organization seems satisifed that they've seen the results internally to finally cement it officially with these promotions.

From a PR standpoint the team has to balance their knowledge that things will suck short term and it's silly to overspend during that transition.  Do some spot moves, they can't hurt, but you have to trust the process you put in place.  It's like counting cards in blackjack.  Follow the rules, have discipline even when you are on a losing streak.  It only works if you stick with it.

this is not to say the team is now primed to be elite, it just means they feel comfortable that they are now officially in that group of teams and have confidence.

An owner can't come out and say "We're going to suck, the guys we are signing in '19 and '20 are not who we really want but we need a 40 man roster".  They let Chadd and Littlefield operate their way in batches.  Chris Ilitch turned the pizza empire around using data. That's documented.  He knows that side of things.  He gave Avila's team room to grow and prove their point and he's seen enough to see it can work.

But the team is in process of turning the corner now.

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6 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I was thinking about these moves in the front office and here's my take:

Avila went hard the other way to do what he could to make the team better analytically.  They wanted to be in that space.  At the same time that kind of thing takes time to implement.  Ausmus talked about this when he left, the systems are being built, but you don't just flip a switch.  

He preached patience with Ilitch and got it.  He gambled that it would pay off and the organization seems satisifed that they've seen the results internally to finally cement it officially with these promotions.

From a PR standpoint the team has to balance their knowledge that things will suck short term and it's silly to overspend during that transition.  Do some spot moves, they can't hurt, but you have to trust the process you put in place.  It's like counting cards in blackjack.  Follow the rules, have discipline even when you are on a losing streak.  It only works if you stick with it.

this is not to say the team is now primed to be elite, it just means they feel comfortable that they are now officially in that group of teams and have confidence.

An owner can't come out and say "We're going to suck, the guys we are signing in '19 and '20 are not who we really want but we need a 40 man roster".  They let Chadd and Littlefield operate their way in batches.  Chris Ilitch turned the pizza empire around using data. That's documented.  He knows that side of things.  He gave Avila's team room to grow and prove their point and he's seen enough to see it can work.

But the team is in process of turning the corner now.

This is a very interesting take.   I have wondered if Jobe pick was evidence of anything revealing about this process and the decisions revealed about the transitions of Chadd and Littlefield.  Either such a dumb move because of X or such great evidence of trusting a process built around Y. 

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