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Casey Mize: Broken or Funkhouser 2.0?

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

Verlander had a 98 mph fastball he could fall back on when hitters weren't swinging at his other stuff.  Mize doesn't have that.

Also, in Verlander's age 23 season he was rookie of the year.  In Mize's age 23 season...he wasn't.  Comparing the two is silly and lazy.

 

The only comparison I was making is that Verlander got lit up in his first trip to the big leagues too. That was it. That sometimes good pitcher don't come up right away and throw shutouts. 

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50 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

No-one is comparing Mize to Verlander (other than you just did :wink:)

Leyland compared Mize to Verlander in a post YOU QUOTED.

 

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It's all down to command with Mize.  His FB command was a major reason why he was picked number 1 and viewed as one of the best pitching prospects out of college of the past half decade or so.   He showed that he was able to spot the corners with a 95+ FB and once ahead had the put away pitch with his splitter.  The past year plus that hasn't been the case, he either misses the zone all together and falls behind or he throws it down the heart of the plate.   As mentioned he doesn't have the type of FB that you can get away with doing that.     

The fact that he once had that command and now doesn't gives me optimism that it can be coached back, I feel better about that than if he just plain lost stuff which hasn't been the case.  

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It's obviously way too early to write things off but it's kinda funny how things work, the Tigers were reportedly enamored with Jarred Kelenic going into that draft but Casey Mize was just thought to be too cant miss to pass up.   Makes you wonder if Sandavol doesn't hit that walk off homer for the Giants in game 162 to give us the number 1 pick that we wouldn't have Kelenic right now who is almost unanimously viewed as a top 10 overall prospect.   

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Let's analyze this. Could be one of three things; some type of injury, some mechanical issue, some mental/stress problem. Could any of these three be long term issues of concern, sure! Could all three be resolvable and Mize go on to fulfill his promise with a long stellar career, sure!! Are we overreacting to what happens in spring training, most likely.

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Julio Teheran had an amazingly bad ST game against the Detroit Tigers during his early years.  That's a data point.  Its not proof of anything re: Mize but its something to consider.

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9 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

it certainly could just be that he hasn't pitched enough recently and the muscle memory is just not where it was in his last yr of college. I said above that the hittability of his FB is a worry to me but maybe when his control is on he gets around that with better location. Having never seen him pitch when he was being successful I don't know what that should look like.

I kind of discount statistics from 2020 a bit.  Its just too short of a sample size in too wonky of a season to evaluate things.  I can understand Mize not being ready for MLB competition, changing ever so slightly as a result, and needing a recalibration to begin this season.

9 hours ago, Buddha said:

Verlander had a 98 mph fastball he could fall back on when hitters weren't swinging at his other stuff.  Mize doesn't have that.

Also, in Verlander's age 23 season he was rookie of the year.  In Mize's age 23 season...he wasn't.  Comparing the two is silly and lazy.

The Tigers just hired a very highly regarded pitching coach.  Let's see if they can get Mize to be a competent MLB starter.

This is clearly another losing season for the Tigers.  I've been ready to jettison guys like Stewart and Jimenez, but if the new on field management thinks they can do something with them, have at it.  Same thing for the development of Mize and others.

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51 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Let's analyze this. Could be one of three things; some type of injury, some mechanical issue, some mental/stress problem. Could any of these three be long term issues of concern, sure! Could all three be resolvable and Mize go on to fulfill his promise with a long stellar career, sure!! Are we overreacting to what happens in spring training, most likely.

There's frustration with the overall inability to develop prospects all along the way.  Other teams seem to be able to do it and remain competitive.  And now the Tigers have decided to go into a full fledged tank, and the suspicion of the lack of development previously is hard to ignore when a top overall pick struggles.  It is eye opening to me, and it stinks to consider the burnout rate of pitching prospects in general on top of this.

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

There's frustration with the overall inability to develop prospects all along the way.  Other teams seem to be able to do it and remain competitive.  And now the Tigers have decided to go into a full fledged tank, and the suspicion of the lack of development previously is hard to ignore when a top overall pick struggles.  It is eye opening to me, and it stinks to consider the burnout rate of pitching prospects in general on top of this.

There's pretty much a whole new staff of people throughout the system over the last couple of years. Pitchers, as a whole, are risky, and most go through growing pains.

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6 minutes ago, Longgone said:

There's pretty much a whole new staff of people throughout the system over the last couple of years. Pitchers, as a whole, are risky, and most go through growing pains.

Sure, but there are Tiger fans that have followed the team for longer than that that now have decades of knowledge of how the Tigers haven't developed much.  Its tough to erase that memory, especially when the #1 pick struggles consistently, and especially when the team has gone the route of highest of priorities on development.

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7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

It's obviously way too early to write things off but it's kinda funny how things work, the Tigers were reportedly enamored with Jarred Kelenic going into that draft but Casey Mize was just thought to be too cant miss to pass up.   Makes you wonder if Sandavol doesn't hit that walk off homer for the Giants in game 162 to give us the number 1 pick that we wouldn't have Kelenic right now who is almost unanimously viewed as a top 10 overall prospect.   

And Kelenic might get up to the majors and not hit at all. It happens too see Baby Vlad. It's way to early to be like well maybe we should have drafted X, Y, Z. Mize was a top prospect at this time last year too. 

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If he’s healthy. I’m not overly concerned.  Let him work things out in Toledo, and have Skubal come north.

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

There's frustration with the overall inability to develop prospects all along the way.  Other teams seem to be able to do it and remain competitive.  And now the Tigers have decided to go into a full fledged tank, and the suspicion of the lack of development previously is hard to ignore when a top overall pick struggles.  It is eye opening to me, and it stinks to consider the burnout rate of pitching prospects in general on top of this.

Didn't the guys that built the Astros draft Mark Appel 1/1?

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22 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

If he’s healthy. I’m not overly concerned.  Let him work things out in Toledo, and have Skubal come north.

After the 1st run through the staff, I'm thinking the locks are Urena, Boyd, Turnbull, Skubal. The last two could be any of Alexander, Norris, Teheran, Mize, Manning, Fulmer ( in no particular order ).

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29 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Didn't the guys that built the Astros draft Mark Appel 1/1?

Yes.

Think he's available for the rotation?

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44 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

After the 1st run through the staff, I'm thinking the locks are Urena, Boyd, Turnbull, Skubal. The last two could be any of Alexander, Norris, Teheran, Mize, Manning, Fulmer ( in no particular order ).

Agree with your 4.  I think the other two will be Teheran and one of Norris/Alexander, with the other in the pen.  I’ll bet they ask Fulmer to go to Toledo to build up his arm strength/work on things.  I think Mize and Manning are locks for AAA.

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The truth is that the Tigers have not consistently developed their own talent since the 80s and this trend continues.  Sure every once-in-a-while a homegrown talent hits it big, but it's far more rare than it should be and this has occurred over the course of several regimes.  What is going on here?   Why can't this team get the best out of their picks on a consistent basis?   

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15 hours ago, Longgone said:

Nah, the stuff is nasty, but the erratic command, for someone who always had that as a strength, is concerning.

The stuff is good but watch some Sixto video and you will see what I’m talking about. It’s not anywhere near the same.   
 

 

 

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On 3/13/2021 at 9:31 PM, Buddha said:

Verlander had a 98 mph fastball he could fall back on when hitters weren't swinging at his other stuff.  Mize doesn't have that.

Also, in Verlander's age 23 season he was rookie of the year.  In Mize's age 23 season...he wasn't.  Comparing the two is silly and lazy.

The Tigers just hired a very highly regarded pitching coach.  Let's see if they can get Mize to be a competent MLB starter.

Who is this fascist and what has he done to buddha?

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Who is this fascist and what has he done to buddha?

save it for the political forum.  lol.

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On 3/14/2021 at 9:00 AM, Gehringer_2 said:

Didn't the guys that built the Astros draft Mark Appel 1/1?

Wasn't that in 2013, well before the Astros convinced anyone they were analytical geniuses?

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Just now, Buddha said:

save it for the political forum.  lol.

Ah, there we go.

Just rip that caps key out already, so you don't slip again.

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23 hours ago, Casimir said:

Yes.

Think he's available for the rotation?

Maybe if we send the Astros Tarik Skubal, pay them $24 million and say "pretty please", we can get Appel.

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22 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The truth is that the Tigers have not consistently developed their own talent since the 80s and this trend continues.  Sure every once-in-a-while a homegrown talent hits it big, but it's far more rare than it should be and this has occurred over the course of several regimes.  What is going on here?   Why can't this team get the best out of their picks on a consistent basis?   

Hmmm ... what's different about the 1980s Tigers from today's Tigers? 🙄

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Posted during the run-up to the 2018 draft, mainly to highlight questions being asked about him even then.

On 5/31/2018 at 11:30 AM, chasfh said:

When I saw that Avila was playing cute yesterday on the 1-1 pick:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2018/05/30/al-avila-draft-detroit-tigers-first-pick/657886002/

I was wondering, assuming that it's true the organization is still deliberating—and I see no upside for them to be coy to throw off other teams, since they're in the driver's seat and the money's already worked out—I'm wondering whether there's a last minute dispute between the analytics people and the scouting people.

If the scouting people are in control, they're going to take Mize, which fits the Tigers' MO: draft the highest ranked power pitcher available who's doing well right now, irrespective of his history with injury or anything else. That's certainly Mize. And the Tigers have been playing the pitchers numbers game for some years now: collect as many live arms as they can and see what ends up sticking to the Comerica clubhouse wall. (Hopefully we don't end up with going through something like the Drumright/Greisinger/Gasper/Anderson draft run debacle all over again.)

On the flip side, I can see the analytics people raising red flags about Mize's injury history, the flatness of his four-seamer and issues with his delivery (as described at Fangraphs), on which they may have presented evidence to Avila that pitchers of that ilk don't develop well. Also, they may be stumping for a position player both to balance out the top of the prospect chain, and because they are far less prone to failing to hit their ceiling because of injury.

There's no way to know, of course, but if this is what's going on, I suppose I'd be happy just to learn that Avila is even considering Analytics' point of view on it.

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