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Casey Mize: Broken or Funkhouser 2.0?


calpon
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Probably overstating it a bit, but it leads to the same thing....not a quality MLB pitcher. Funkhouser just comes in and throws so many balls and it is unbearable to watch and Mize seems to be this way too. Am I missing something or does he have the ability to locate and command?

I have watched him pitch at least 3 games in each of these formats...college, minors, Spring Training and MLB....and he has looked the same at each level.

He has great movement and nice velocity, but he just cannot locate in the strike zone.(Movement does not seem to be as good this spring even) He depends on the batter getting themselves out by chasing out of the zone. If they don't, it seems the only pitch he can throw in the strike zone is a grooved pitch down the middle. Even in his no-hitter at Erie it was the same thing, but most of the hitters swung and missed out of the zone or were not good enough (minors for a reason) to hit the ball with enough authority for a base hit (I think there might have been a couple defensive gems by Erie in that game too).

It may just be small sample size and I might have just seen him off in the games I watched. Even in the no hitter, I wondered why the other team was swinging at so many balls out of the zone (if you looked at the #'s, he had a great ratio I bet, but a good portion of the pitches were balls). In the big leagues, hitters aren't gonna fall for that too long. With all the video...they never did fall for it.

So educate me....Broken or Funkhouser 2.0?

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3 minutes ago, calpon said:

Probably overstating it a bit, but it leads to the same thing....not a quality MLB pitcher. Funkhouser just comes in and throws so many balls and it is unbearable to watch and Mize seems to be this way too. Am I missing something or does he have the ability to locate and command?

I have watched him pitch at least 3 games in each of these formats...college, minors, Spring Training and MLB....and he has looked the same at each level.

He has great movement and nice velocity, but he just cannot locate in the strike zone.(Movement does not seem to be as good this spring even) He depends on the batter getting themselves out by chasing out of the zone. If they don't, it seems the only pitch he can throw in the strike zone is a grooved pitch down the middle. Even in his no-hitter at Erie it was the same thing, but most of the hitters swung and missed out of the zone or were not good enough (minors for a reason) to hit the ball with enough authority for a base hit (I think there might have been a couple defensive gems by Erie in that game too).

It may just be small sample size and I might have just seen him off in the games I watched. Even in the no hitter, I wondered why the other team was swinging at so many balls out of the zone (if you looked at the #'s, he had a great ratio I bet, but a good portion of the pitches were balls). In the big leagues, hitters aren't gonna fall for that too long. With all the video...they never did fall for it.

So educate me....Broken or Funkhouser 2.0?

I have to admit I am concerned when he can't survive mistakes with his FB. Not being  able to just throw your best velo for a strike without some probability you will get away with it no matter where it is makes life a lot harder for a supposed power pitcher (I mean the JV style, "here is a strike if you do anything with it"). I'd like to see Mize getting more S&M or some pop-ups or fouls off that fast ball to tell me it has some kind of life and can be harder to square up than it was today. Otherwise he is going to have to learn to get by pitching backwards.

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If Mize and Manning dont show serious potential to be high quality ML pitchers at some point this year, that would really blow a Comerica Park sized hole the current play sub-400-for-4-plus-years-to-save-Chris-some-payroll-risk scheme...at least the part that concerns winning again. 

I realize that Manning was a pre-tank pick, and FWIW, i like him a lot.  The lost 2020 season notwithstanding, if this org cannot bring a healthy Manning along, that would reflect poorly again on their pitcher development program.

As for Mize, he was pretty much a consensus #1, so if his struggles are not health related and continue, that would be yet another major ding on the organization.

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59 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

As for Mize, he was pretty much a consensus #1, so if his struggles are not health related and continue, that would be yet another major ding on the organization.

AS Buddha posted in the game thread, if Mize does not excel the Tigers won't be the only organization that would have missed the call. Would certainly be a big blow to the org. Whether it means they can't draft - IDK.

On the plus side the velo he had seemed to lose after the sore arm is certainly back.

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

I realize that Manning was a pre-tank pick, and FWIW, i like him a lot.

I like FB/Curve ball power pitchers so I'm rooting for Manning big time. And with that delivery he needs to be great or he will make a liar out of every baseball maven who ever said mechanics matter!

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What I was trying to say is that if Mize is a bust, it would be a black mark against their ability to develop healthy talent, not a mark against their ability to draft a consensus #1 pick, which pretty much any organization would do.

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27 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I like FB/Curve ball power pitchers so I'm rooting for Manning big time. And with that delivery he needs to be great or he will make a liar out of every baseball maven who ever said mechanics matter!

Yeah, I saw him pitch in West Michigan a couple of years ago, and he was really good.  Super smooth delivery, good velocity, nice command.  That alone doesn't mean much, I understand that I am no scout, but he looked like a very good pitcher.

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Its spring and last year was his first trip to the majors. Lots of pitchers get lit up in their first trip to the major. See Verlander, Justin. 

How many times have we've seen guys have great/terrible springs and do something much different in games that count? 

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I am not really that impressed with Mize when I compare him to what I saw last year from similar prospects like Sixto Sanchez, Triston McKenzie, and Dustin May.   Sixto and May’s stuff are both on a complete different level than Mize.  
 

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21 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I am not really that impressed with Mize when I compare him to what I saw last year from similar prospects like Sixto Sanchez, Triston McKenzie, and Dustin May.   Sixto and May’s stuff are both on a complete different level than Mize.  
 

The thing we kept hearing about Mize was his incredible control.  If he doesn't have that.............. I guess this is where we see if the Tigers new pitching coach is as good as people say or if Mize is headed for TJ.   If it's TJ, just do it now and get it out of the way, that way he only misses 2021 and he'll be ready when baseball comes back in 2023.   

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26 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I am not really that impressed with Mize when I compare him to what I saw last year from similar prospects like Sixto Sanchez, Triston McKenzie, and Dustin May.   Sixto and May’s stuff are both on a complete different level than Mize.  
 

Nah, the stuff is nasty, but the erratic command, for someone who always had that as a strength, is concerning.

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2 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Its spring and last year was his first trip to the majors. Lots of pitchers get lit up in their first trip to the major. See Verlander, Justin. 

How many times have we've seen guys have great/terrible springs and do something much different in games that count? 

it certainly could just be that he hasn't pitched enough recently and the muscle memory is just not where it was in his last yr of college. I said above that the hittability of his FB is a worry to me but maybe when his control is on he gets around that with better location. Having never seen him pitch when he was being successful I don't know what that should look like.

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8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

it certainly could just be that he hasn't pitched enough recently and the muscle memory is just not where it was in his last yr of college. I said above that the hittability of his FB is a worry to me but maybe when his control is on he gets around that with better location. Having never seen him pitch when he was being successful I don't know what that should look like.

Verlander had a 98 mph fastball he could fall back on when hitters weren't swinging at his other stuff.  Mize doesn't have that.

Also, in Verlander's age 23 season he was rookie of the year.  In Mize's age 23 season...he wasn't.  Comparing the two is silly and lazy.

The Tigers just hired a very highly regarded pitching coach.  Let's see if they can get Mize to be a competent MLB starter.

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50 minutes ago, Buddha said:

Verlander had a 98 mph fastball he could fall back on when hitters weren't swinging at his other stuff.  Mize doesn't have that.

Also, in Verlander's age 23 season he was rookie of the year.  In Mize's age 23 season...he wasn't.  Comparing the two is silly and lazy.

The Tigers just hired a very highly regarded pitching coach.  Let's see if they can get Mize to be a competent MLB starter.

No-one is comparing Mize to Verlander (other than you just did :wink:) beyond the fact that both throw a fastball. Mize touched 97 today. It's not even  so much the size the arm that is the difference. Mize has plenty of heat. I mentioned JV not as a comp, but as an example of any pitcher throwing his best FB with the confidence to dare the hitter to hit it, which most guys with 95 and up end up doing more or less of the time  - JV just happened to do it a lot so was the obvious way to get the idea.

Command issues aside (which are serious enough but not really what I was focused on), when Mize threw his FB in zone today he didn't have the movement/life/break/whatever, for it not to be barreled up. You see some guys that are wild and get in trouble with walks but still are not getting hit hard. That wasn't Mize today.

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