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Lions and Stafford Agree To Part Ways


Hongbit
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If I got to pick where they sent him, it would probably be Denver because they have the highest 1st Round pick in this draft (of the teams I've heard to have potential interest)  The question for me is "Does Stafford have veto power?" Does he get to say "No..not there", `cuz I can foresee him not wanting to follow Patricia back to N-E. 

Of the other teams, I think perhaps we could get the most from the Colts, 9ers, or maybe Saints. Getting picks AND Garappolo to hold the fort for a year while you're draft pick sits .. or letting Dan Campbell pick thru the Saints roster with people he knows might not be bad.

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Before I start what I'm going to say, I just want to say that I'm a Stafford fan and have always felt that the Lions failed him moreso than him failing the Lions BUT I'm seeing this sentiment from Lions writers and some fans that Stafford being gone will be a colossal disaster.

I mean, lets be honest, they've been mediocre at best throughout his tenure and have been a colossal disaster even with him the last few years. It's not like the Lions were this perennial playoff contender that will now hit rock bottom without Stafford, they were barely relevant WITH him (9-54 against winning teams for instance). That's mostly an indictment of the organization but, while they will be worse without him in the short term, I don't think the sky is all of a sudden falling. In fact, I think the franchise will be reinvigorated, as will Stafford as it had gone stale with him here.

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19 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Before I start what I'm going to say, I just want to say that I'm a Stafford fan and have always felt that the Lions failed him moreso than him failing the Lions BUT I'm seeing this sentiment from Lions writers and some fans that Stafford being gone will be a colossal disaster.

I mean, lets be honest, they've been mediocre at best throughout his tenure and have been a colossal disaster even with him the last few years. It's not like the Lions were this perennial playoff contender that will now hit rock bottom without Stafford, they were barely relevant WITH him (9-54 against winning teams for instance). That's mostly an indictment of the organization but, while they will be worse without him in the short term, I don't think the sky is all of a sudden falling. In fact, I think the franchise will be reinvigorated, as will Stafford as it had gone stale with him here.

I think if he stayed here he would very likely have had a couple more losing seasons, while continuing to get the snot kicked out of him, before things would likely get better....by then he would be pushing 36 with a loooooot of hard miles on his body.  For these reasons, I have a difficult time seeing how keeping him would improve the team's chances to make/win in the playoffs.

I think the couple of knuckleheads who were saying "FINALLY!" are the Pad Statford people who can only want and appreciate Super Bowl winning QBs, of which there are like three active in the NFL after Drew Brees retires, and one of them is Nick freaking Foles.

If they can use a high draft pick to acquire one of the top QBs in the upcoming draft, that's probably the best scenario overall.   

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12 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Before I start what I'm going to say, I just want to say that I'm a Stafford fan and have always felt that the Lions failed him moreso than him failing the Lions BUT I'm seeing this sentiment from Lions writers and some fans that Stafford being gone will be a colossal disaster.

I mean, lets be honest, they've been mediocre at best throughout his tenure and have been a colossal disaster even with him the last few years. It's not like the Lions were this perennial playoff contender that will now hit rock bottom without Stafford, they were barely relevant WITH him (9-54 against winning teams for instance). That's mostly an indictment of the organization but, while they will be worse without him in the short term, I don't think the sky is all of a sudden falling. In fact, I think the franchise will be reinvigorated, as will Stafford as it had gone stale with him here.

The thing is, Stafford was good enough to win with and the Lions couldn't put the pieces around him. Think of all the QBs who have been drafted in the 1st round the past 12 seasons. Look at how many failed and are not in the league anymore. You don't just go out and get a QB like Stafford. It's why teams are willing to give multiple picks. The Lions have the league worst defense. Remember those years the Saints were 7-9 with Drew Brees? Look at the NFC Championship game. Everyone is heaping praise on Tom Brady and he threw 3 INTs. Stafford doesn't have that luxury. The Lions defense wouldn't have bailed out Brady the way the Bucs defense did. Then you have the fact he has had 11 100 rushers in his 12 year career. That's literally less than one per season. Drafting a new QB doesn't change that. 

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The thing is, Stafford was good enough to win with and the Lions couldn't put the pieces around him. Think of all the QBs who have been drafted in the 1st round the past 12 seasons. Look at how many failed and are not in the league anymore. You don't just go out and get a QB like Stafford. It's why teams are willing to give multiple picks. The Lions have the league worst defense. Remember those years the Saints were 7-9 with Drew Brees? Look at the NFC Championship game. Everyone is heaping praise on Tom Brady and he threw 3 INTs. Stafford doesn't have that luxury. The Lions defense wouldn't have bailed out Brady the way the Bucs defense did. Then you have the fact he has had 11 100 rushers in his 12 year career. That's literally less than one per season. Drafting a new QB doesn't change that. 

Absolutely correct.  Bad defense + no running game = getting the crap kicked out of you all of the time.  If Wood/Spielman/Holmes/Dorsey/Agnew/Disner/etc. cannot get the roster right, no QB will ever have a chance here.

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15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Everyone is heaping praise on Tom Brady and he threw 3 INTs

While I agree with your point, it's worth observing that of those 3 ints, one was effectively a punt, and one was tip by the receiver, so I would only rate the 2nd int as a significant mistake, which is why Brady is Brady and in a league by himself. He even manages his mistakes well.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

While I agree with your point, it's worth observing that of those 3 ints, one was effectively a punt, and one was tip by the receiver, so I would only rate the 2nd int as significant mistake, which is why Brady is Brady and in a league by himself.

Two of the INTs were on 2nd down. Stafford doesn't have the luxury of punting on 2nd down. The other was a 3rd and 2. Again, Stafford doesn't have the luxury of not being able to convert on 3rd and short and hand the ball back to Aaron Rodgers. 

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The main problem i saw with keeping Stafford was 2021 was going to be a retool at best and convincing him to be a part of it. They have little cap room, an historically awful defense, and not enough draft picks to cover all of the glaring holes, wide receiver included. So if he stayed he's looking at another year of losing, and then, maybe, if everything goes right, they could be in position to make a run. 

There are risks involved in trading him, like having to cycle through Chuck Long, Andre Ware, Scott Mitchell and Joey Harrington before finding a competent replacement. But he could demand a trade next year, or not resign the year after that. He has had chronic back issues recently so that is a risk as well.

Hopefully we have talent evaluators in place now that will be able to bring in a decent QB on the first try.

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

Before I start what I'm going to say, I just want to say that I'm a Stafford fan and have always felt that the Lions failed him moreso than him failing the Lions BUT I'm seeing this sentiment from Lions writers and some fans that Stafford being gone will be a colossal disaster.

I mean, lets be honest, they've been mediocre at best throughout his tenure and have been a colossal disaster even with him the last few years. It's not like the Lions were this perennial playoff contender that will now hit rock bottom without Stafford, they were barely relevant WITH him (9-54 against winning teams for instance). That's mostly an indictment of the organization but, while they will be worse without him in the short term, I don't think the sky is all of a sudden falling. In fact, I think the franchise will be reinvigorated, as will Stafford as it had gone stale with him here.

I think Stafford covered up for a LOT of problems. 

Unless the Lions trade him for a QB (Garoppolo? Lock? Darnold? Winston/Hill?) who has a magical resurgence, or unless they somehow figure out how to make a trade work for Watson, or unless they hit the jackpot with the QB they draft, they will be lucky to have three wins next season. 

Guess what: Marvin Jones is not coming back. Maybe they would franchise Golladay, but then he will probably have a lingering hip injury all next season. So they have no QB, no WRs, and a mediocre running game.

It will take a miracle for them even to manage to score 300 points all next season. 

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I don't think the offense is that dire. I think Swift has a lot of upside so he could be a plus back. I would still bring back Kerryon. It made absolutely no sense to bring in Peterson. Kerryon is a good blocker and should potential as a runner. Might as well see once and for all if he has it. Now that they are trading Stafford, they have a little cap space to sign a Jones replacement. Allen Robinson perhaps? Franchise Golladay and the OL has some nice pieces like Ragnow and Decker. You also have Hockenson so the offense isn't a lost cause and a rookie QB could be stepping into a much worse situation. 

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27 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I think Stafford covered up for a LOT of problems. 

Unless the Lions trade him for a QB (Garoppolo? Lock? Darnold? Winston/Hill?) who has a magical resurgence, or unless they somehow figure out how to make a trade work for Watson, or unless they hit the jackpot with the QB they draft, they will be lucky to have three wins next season. 

Guess what: Marvin Jones is not coming back. Maybe they would franchise Golladay, but then he will probably have a lingering hip injury all next season. So they have no QB, no WRs, and a mediocre running game.

It will take a miracle for them even to manage to score 300 points all next season. 

The Lions need a couple of historically based seasons to right this ship with high draft picks. They are going to need a top QB (which they can get in this years draft, a top Edge Rusher and a top LT. Get the QB this year and the Edge Rusher next year.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The Lions need a couple of historically based seasons to right this ship with high draft picks. They are going to need a top QB (which they can get in this years draft, a top Edge Rusher and a top LT. Get the QB this year and the Edge Rusher next year.

Taylor Decker is a top LT. 

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5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Taylor Decker is a top LT. 

Yeah you are right, I was reading something from PFF but read it wrong, He was tied for 51st among sacks allowed, which I thought initially was a poor ranking, until I looked at it further and realized he only allowed 2 sacks total. I stand corrected on getting a LT.

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25 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't think the offense is that dire. I think Swift has a lot of upside so he could be a plus back. I would still bring back Kerryon. It made absolutely no sense to bring in Peterson. Kerryon is a good blocker and should potential as a runner. Might as well see once and for all if he has it. Now that they are trading Stafford, they have a little cap space to sign a Jones replacement. Allen Robinson perhaps? Franchise Golladay and the OL has some nice pieces like Ragnow and Decker. You also have Hockenson so the offense isn't a lost cause and a rookie QB could be stepping into a much worse situation. 

100% agree. I think Swift will be a really good back.  Hockenson is solid TE.  They need a WR to stretch the field and a serviceable QB (Fitzpatrick, Taylor).  Depending on draft haul for Stafford, you draft a couple WR's.  I feel pretty good about the GM's ability to get the most out of the draft.  I'm more worried about the defense than our offense.  

I don't think you can discount the fact that the team did not necessarily play hard for Patricia.  If Campbell can get maximum effort than his results might be different.

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54 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Lot of buzz Aaron Rodgers may be done in Green Bay. Kirk Cousins may end up the best QB in the division now. 

Rodgers contract makes it almost impossible to trade him, similar to what Stafford's contract looked like last season. They'd get very little cap savings next season.

With that said, if Rodgers demands out then they might have no choice and it's something that we should root heavily against. We don't want seller competition in this market which would water down the amount of buyers, we should also root for Dallas to re-sign Prescott.

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39 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't think the offense is that dire. I think Swift has a lot of upside so he could be a plus back. I would still bring back Kerryon. It made absolutely no sense to bring in Peterson. Kerryon is a good blocker and should potential as a runner. Might as well see once and for all if he has it. Now that they are trading Stafford, they have a little cap space to sign a Jones replacement. Allen Robinson perhaps? Franchise Golladay and the OL has some nice pieces like Ragnow and Decker. You also have Hockenson so the offense isn't a lost cause and a rookie QB could be stepping into a much worse situation. 

I agree, which makes me feel better about bringing in a QB this year. Andrew Luck was the best QB in a generation to hit the draft, and he was never able to thrive because his offensive line was a sieve. A QB coming in will have decent protection right now on the left side between Decker/Jackson/Ragnow. If Stenburg can show something, or Dahl can be a consistent starter, you have RG set. Then you just need a RT when you dump Vaitai's awful contract.

-edit to add- I still would prefer a rookie QB coming in have a veteran starter they can sit and learn behind for most, if not all, of his rookie season.

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2 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I agree, which makes me feel better about bringing in a QB this year. Andrew Luck was the best QB in a generation to hit the draft, and he was never able to thrive because his offensive line was a sieve. A QB coming in will have decent protection right now on the left side between Decker/Jackson/Ragnow. If Stenburg can show something, or Dahl can be a consistent starter, you have RG set. Then you just need a RT when you dump Vaitai's awful contract.

I'm not sure Vaitai's contract can be dumped this year but you might as well see what he can do when healthy. Vaitai's contract isn't that awful since the guarantee was fairly low. The Lions were able to keep Hank Fraley as OL coach even though he was pursued by multiple teams. The line showed improvement under Fraley. Also Campbell will probably not be a douche like Patricia and play games by benching lineman and inexplicably switching positions on them. 

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1st and a thiird or a 4th seems reasonable to me.  If you do not get that you do not trade him.  He will not be a lame duck, he will want to play at his highest level to get more attention the following year.  It would not be ideal for the Lions as it seems the idea will be to suck next year for another couple good picks and another year of experience under the belt of the new QB.  6 years is a long time to wait for them to blow it up and start the rebuild all over again.

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm not sure Vaitai's contract can be dumped this year but you might as well see what he can do when healthy. Vaitai's contract isn't that awful since the guarantee was fairly low. The Lions were able to keep Hank Fraley as OL coach even though he was pursued by multiple teams. The line showed improvement under Fraley. Also Campbell will probably not be a douche like Patricia and play games by benching lineman and inexplicably switching positions on them. 

I agree that he's worth a look in 21 while healthy, I'm just not holding my breath he ends up being a staple for years to come (in the same way the other 3 or 4 could be). He was a backup in Philadelphia and we are forcing him into that starter's role, both with pay and in the depth chart.

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Tom Brady has won 6 Conference championship games with these pathetic numbers.    

 

That is against the 6 second best teams in the division (possibly the second best team in the league).  Not trying to justify it, just raising the point.

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