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Lions and Stafford Agree To Part Ways

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12 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I'm talking current value.

And his recent turnover-prone play has him as a late-1st-round value rather than a 1-1. Would you trade the #1 pick this year for Goff? Alternatively, if you were Denver, Saints, Patriots, Washington, Bears... would you trade this year's or a future 1st round pick for Goff?

If the Lions help him improve his play significantly (reduce turnovers, win game, etc...), he rehabilitates his "current value" some.

Yeah, I know what you’re talking about but the draft just doesn’t work that way. In each draft, the players are who the players are. Some years there are players with HOF caliber talent like Matt Stafford. Other years, the top players are Goff and Wentz. And other years there is a guy like Aaron Rodgers who gets eclipsed by an Alex Smith. 

In this particular draft, I wouldn’t pick Goff above Trevor Lawrence. But if I were running an NFL franchise I might put him above everybody else. We way overvalue prospects because we project what they might do. But nobody ever says, “This guy is gonna be the next Blake Bortles.” Which is more likely than that he is the next Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, or even Jared Goff. 

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It's not the Lions that would want to file tampering charges with the NFL but rather Carolina or Washington or any other team interested in Stafford. The Rams would probably volunteer a 1st round pick as penalty for tampering. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

When the Lions play the Rams, they'll maul Stafford's kneecaps and the Rams will be picking 8th the next couple years. I like that the draft picks are spread over multiple drafts. You have the ammunition to trade into the top 10 for a foundational piece if you want it. Above all else, I just want good starters. The roster needs depth and quality depth. 

I also read that Stafford and McVay met prior to the trade. Sounds like tampering to me. 

And those picks for Watson? Never happen, we need multiple positions filled. 

I read this morning that Stafford warned the Lions not to trade him to New England. I like him even more now. I wish him nothing but success, happiness and health.

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Goff, thiird this year, first next year, first the year after.

A basic look at this is Stafford a thiird and 2 first round picks better than Goff?  I do not think so.  We won.

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45 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

In this particular draft, I wouldn’t pick Goff above Trevor Lawrence. But if I were running an NFL franchise I might put him above everybody else. We way overvalue prospects because we project what they might do. But nobody ever says, “This guy is gonna be the next Blake Bortles.” Which is more likely than that he is the next Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, or even Jared Goff. 

Yeah, we go through this every cycle with QBs coming out of the draft and, inevitably, not all of them live up to the hype. 

Goff is at least a known commodity with some upside.... it provides the Lions flexibility in attacking the QB position without being put in the situation of having a gun to their head to pick one in the draft.

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18 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Not sure how reliable this is. I do feel the Lions value Goff. 

 

Yes, and Goff is actually better than a 1st round pick. Most QBs picked in the 1st round do not end up having a significant NFL playing career. Goff has already done that, and promises to continue doing that. 

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It's beginning to sound pretty much like Goff could do fine as long as they don't ask him to do things that are not his strength, like sling the ball cross field 40 yds. To have Stafford's or Rodger's arm is absolutely a big plus but it's one factor among many. I agree with the sentiments already posted that he should be good enough to give the Lion's options for how they want to address the position long term and it's hard to argue against that.

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having goff gives the lions options.  that's the best part about him.  and who knows?  maybe he turns out to be a decent qb?

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9 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It's beginning to sound pretty much like Goff could do fine as long as they don't ask him to do things that are not his strength, like sling the ball cross field 40 yds. To have Stafford's or Rodger's arm is absolutely a big plus but it's one factor among many. I agree with the sentiments already posted that he should be good enough to give the Lion's options for how they want to address the position long term and it's hard to argue against that.

There was an interesting heat map that showed Goff was more accurate between the hashes and in the short to intermediate than Stafford whereas Stafford was more accurate to the sidelines and deep. That pretty much indicates Stafford's arm strength advantage over Goff. That intermediate between the hashes game is going to be great for Hockenson. It would probably help immensely if they had a good slot receiver. In watching Goff highlights, I couldn't help but notice how often his best plays came off play action. I expect more Swift, more play action, and wouldn't be surprised if Hockenson ends up with at least 80 catches. 

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11 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It's beginning to sound pretty much like Goff could do fine as long as they don't ask him to do things that are not his strength, like sling the ball cross field 40 yds. To have Stafford's or Rodger's arm is absolutely a big plus but it's one factor among many. I agree with the sentiments already posted that he should be good enough to give the Lion's options for how they want to address the position long term and it's hard to argue against that.

Yeah, with a good team he's good enough to go toe-to-toe with Brady in the Super Bowl for three and a half quarters.

And by filling the crater at QB, you hope that Holmes can take the extra 3rd and two 1sts and pick up at least two additional cornerstone players in the next three drafts.

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3 minutes ago, Buddha said:

having goff gives the lions options.  that's the best part about him.  and who knows?  maybe he turns out to be a decent qb?

The knock on Stafford was that he couldn't beat good teams and never won a playoff game. Goff has been a full time starter for 4 years and have winning records in all of them and made the playoffs three times and been to a Super Bowl. He's proven if given the talent, you can get to the Super Bowl with him. I would prefer Stafford over Goff but I really believe Goff is a QB you can win with. 

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2 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Yeah, with a good team he's good enough to go toe-to-toe with Brady in the Super Bowl for three and a half quarters.

And by filling the crater at QB, you hope that Holmes can take the extra 3rd and two 1sts and pick up at least two additional cornerstone players in the next three drafts.

I seem to recall that Cooks dropped a TD pass that would have changed the momentum in that game. 

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I seem to recall that Cooks dropped a TD pass that would have changed the momentum in that game. 

Yep.

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13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The knock on Stafford was that he couldn't beat good teams and never won a playoff game.

That knock is ignorant.

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34 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It's beginning to sound pretty much like Goff could do fine as long as they don't ask him to do things that are not his strength, like sling the ball cross field 40 yds. To have Stafford's or Rodger's arm is absolutely a big plus but it's one factor among many. I agree with the sentiments already posted that he should be good enough to give the Lion's options for how they want to address the position long term and it's hard to argue against that.

QB picks are the big sexy picks, but that defense needs a lot of work, the WR core needs to be replenished (especially if they let Golliday walk)....

Especially if Holmes/Campbell don't like the QB options this year, there is value in being able to focus on the rest of the team this year and revisit the subject in the future. It's very unlikely they are competitive next year anyway, so might as well.

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Yeah, I know what you’re talking about but the draft just doesn’t work that way....

But I'm not talking about the draft at all.

I'm talking ONLY about Goff's value.

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3 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

But I'm not talking about the draft at all.

I'm talking ONLY about Goff's value.

Goff's value... in terms of draft picks.

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2 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Goff's value... in terms of draft picks.

Yes.

If you were to trade Goff TODAY (let's say the Patriots were "determined" to trade for Goff, right now), what draft picks might you expect in return? A 2nd rounder? A 1st rounder? Two 3rds? The #1 pick in the draft?

That is what Goff's VALUE is, in terms of draft picks.

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16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Good article about the whole process to trade Stafford. 

 

Yeah, I posted this on the last page which apparently everybody missed haha. It was a good read.

It also expanded on the other offers as well which I outlined in that post and also contradicts Peter King's rumor that they got offered two 1sts from another team so I don't know who to believe.

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I also read that Stafford and McVay met prior to the trade. Sounds like tampering to me. 

Isn't there already a round-about connection between the two? Someone Kelly is related to or something?

Tampering is a fine line. McVay can pass Matt on the street and say "hey" and that's not tampering. He can't pass him and say "hey come play for the Rams" though, and the only people who know what he said now play for the Rams.

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6 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Yeah, I posted this on the last page which apparently everybody missed haha. It was a good read.

It also expanded on the other offers as well which I outlined in that post and also contradicts Peter King's rumor that they got offered two 1sts from another team so I don't know who to believe.

It reinforces to me that they like Goff. I'm sure Carolina would have thrown in Bridgewater if the Lions wanted just a stopgap. I still like two late 1st rounders vs 1 top 10 pick. Holmes and Dorsey are two of the best talent evaluators in the NFL so give me quantity over quality. I also don't like having two top 10 picks in the same draft. If this draft turns out to be a dud, you've blown all you capital. 

Peter King also said Garoppolo and a 2nd would be enough to get Stafford. It's possible the other team offering two firsts was Chicago and the Lions didn't want to trade in the division. I'm surprised the Colts weren't offering the 21st pick. 

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9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

It reinforces to me that they like Goff. I'm sure Carolina would have thrown in Bridgewater if the Lions wanted just a stopgap. I still like two late 1st rounders vs 1 top 10 pick. Holmes and Dorsey are two of the best talent evaluators in the NFL so give me quantity over quality. I also don't like having two top 10 picks in the same draft. If this draft turns out to be a dud, you've blown all you capital. 

Peter King also said Garoppolo and a 2nd would be enough to get Stafford. It's possible the other team offering two firsts was Chicago and the Lions didn't want to trade in the division. I'm surprised the Colts weren't offering the 21st pick. 

According to the draft picks point system, #8 = two late 20s 1st rounders and this is assuming that the two 1sts will be in the late 20s which I think is far from a guarantee, so I prefer the Rams package. Also the more picks the better, there are lots of holes to fill and they hired two draft gurus in Dorsey and Holmes so... put them to work.

I was also surprised that the Colts didn't offer a 1st, apparently. That's an organization with an aggressive mindset so I thought they'd be "hot and heavy" in the Stafford sweepstakes.

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