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Lions and Stafford Agree To Part Ways


Hongbit
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I don’t think it will be an F for the Rams. They got the F with Goff’s contract. 

The one who has the most on the line is Stafford. If he does not get that playoff win, his career reputation will be tainted forever. But he also has the potential to ride this new opportunity straight to the Hall of Fame. 

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15 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

So what the **** happened to Goff between 2018 and today?

Look at Stafford and look at Goff's numbers. Stafford regressed after a big season in 2011. Those Joe Lombardi days were not good. I still believe there is upside to Goff. He's still young. The Lions have the luxury of finding out if there is and have multiple picks. 

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Just now, RandyMarsh said:

I think that's kinda unfair to the Rams.  You can say time will tell with the Lions too, what if all those picks turn out to be busts?   

From the Rams POV though, they traded two 1sts, two 2nds, and two 3rds to draft Goff, then traded two 1sts and a 3rd to get rid of him five years later. If getting rid of him doesn't bring them fame and riches they're getting pretty far into the hole pretty quickly.

The Lions at the very least have set themselves up for future success in the here-and-now.

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I think Holmes wanted Goff. 

 

That has me a bit worried, that he sees him as THE guy for the Lions going forward. If they draft a QB this season then we'll know how they see Goff's future here. 

Goff really isn't that good. He was sheltered by the best running game in the league for a few seasons. Unless Swift turns into prime Gurley, it'll be a rough year with Goff.

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm going to go ahead and pat myself on the back and say I called this one. As for the trade, I love it. I'm not as down on Goff as some are, but the guy is only 26. Here's his past season:

Screenshot-2021-01-30-at-11-43-36-PM.png

Here's Stafford's:

Screenshot-2021-01-30-at-11-29-02-PM.png

 

Was Goff that much worse than Stafford? How about looking at Stafford'sage 26 season:

Screenshot-2021-01-30-at-11-30-17-PM.png

Goff was better at age 26 than Stafford. Like Goff, Stafford had a big season at age 23 and then regressed some before turning it around. I have no idea why people are writing Goff off already. He's only 26 and two years removed from having an MVP caliber season. Goff has better numbers through age 26 than Stafford. Goff is still young enough to build around. If the regression is real, you got two 1st round picks but Goff is not a bad QB. I'm just as excited to see Goff and what he can do with a change of scenery. The Lions have options. They can draft a QB at 7, or draft a WR or defensive player. They can also trade out of 7 for more picks to one of the QB hungry teams.

Remember, Holmes said retool and not rebuild. This is a retool type move. If the Rams were willing to absorb the dead cap hit, they could have unloaded him for a 4th round pick and traded picks to the Lions. I think Holmes wanted Goff. 

 

This is what I like most about the trade, Goff atleast gives us a QB that you could potentially win with if everything else goes right.  I certainly don't expect them to win but if they hit a home run in this draft, Okudah improves immensely and Campbell and Co. improve the guys around us atleast there is a chance we can still compete next year.  No doubt a long shot but its not impossible like it would be if we were going in with Chase Daniel as our QB.  

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Just now, NYLion said:

That has me a bit worried, that he sees him as THE guy for the Lions going forward. If they draft a QB this season then we'll know how they see Goff's future here.

I don't think whether they draft a QB says anything. They may have already determined they don't like the QBs outside of Lawrence. They may not make a panic move and draft a QB they don't like. When Dorsey was in Kansas City after they went 2-14, they traded for Alex Smith and used him a couple years while they built the talent on the roster and then struck for Mahomes. 

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm going to go ahead and pat myself on the back and say I called this one. As for the trade, I love it. I'm not as down on Goff as some are, but the guy is only 26. Here's his past season:

Screenshot-2021-01-30-at-11-43-36-PM.png

Here's Stafford's:

Screenshot-2021-01-30-at-11-29-02-PM.png

 

Was Goff that much worse than Stafford? How about looking at Stafford'sage 26 season:

Screenshot-2021-01-30-at-11-30-17-PM.png

Goff was better at age 26 than Stafford. Like Goff, Stafford had a big season at age 23 and then regressed some before turning it around. I have no idea why people are writing Goff off already. He's only 26 and two years removed from having an MVP caliber season. Goff has better numbers through age 26 than Stafford. Goff is still young enough to build around. If the regression is real, you got two 1st round picks but Goff is not a bad QB. I'm just as excited to see Goff and what he can do with a change of scenery. The Lions have options. They can draft a QB at 7, or draft a WR or defensive player. They can also trade out of 7 for more picks to one of the QB hungry teams.

Remember, Holmes said retool and not rebuild. This is a retool type move. If the Rams were willing to absorb the dead cap hit, they could have unloaded him for a 4th round pick and traded picks to the Lions. I think Holmes wanted Goff. 

 

Agree. Nobody knows Goff as well as Holmes. I have to think that if Holmes believed the worst about Goff, the Lions would have rejected the deal out of hand. 

At the very least he is good enough to make the team competitive until they pick a QB. And they are no longer obligated to pick a QB this draft. Holmes gave them multiple options. 
 

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I doubt Goff is the long term answer, but if they do draft a QB and Goff ends up playing well, we could end up with a similar dynamic to the Chargers when they had both Brees and Rivers.  

Leaves them with options.... not a bad situation 

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9 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

I think injuries. McVay's system puts alot of stress on the QB.

The complaints I found in the LA media were that he runs hot and cold and that by the end McVay was exasperated with his inconsistency. There is certainly no question he has the physical talent to win in the NFL  - he got the Rams to a Super Bowl, and he's put up a good number of extreme single game performances. If his problem really is that he is becoming a head case then maybe getting dumped by his team will be a little shock treatment for him, but who knows if that is really what is going on.

If the lions figure they are not a playoff team next season anyway there's probably no cost to seeing what a change of scenery does for Goff.

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4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't think whether they draft a QB says anything. They may have already determined they don't like the QBs outside of Lawrence. They may not make a panic move and draft a QB they don't like. When Dorsey was in Kansas City after they went 2-14, they traded for Alex Smith and used him a couple years while they built the talent on the roster and then struck for Mahomes. 

Let me rephrase. If they do take a QB with #7, it'll be clear that Goff is just a placeholder unless he completely knocks it out of the park next season but if they don't, it'll leave it open for debate going forward whether or not he's their guy.

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2 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Let me rephrase. If they do take a QB with #7, it'll be clear that Goff is just a placeholder unless he completely knocks it out of the park next season but if they don't, it'll leave it open for debate going forward whether or not he's their guy.

I don't believe they will be drafting a QB. This is similar to what Kansas City did with Alex Smith. Smith was good enough to keep them competitive while they searched for a new QB. Goff is also younger than Smith so maybe they think he could be the answer. Either way, the Lions are sitting pretty with a QB needy team like Carolina behind them and other teams like Denver and SF who may want to jump the Panthers.

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1 minute ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The complaints I found in the LA media were that he runs hot and cold and that by the end McVay was exasperated with his inconsistency. There is certainly no question he has the physical talent to win in the NFL  - he got the Rams to a Super Bowl, and he's put up a good number of extreme single game performances. If his problem really is that he is becoming a head case then maybe getting dumped by his team will be a little shock treatment for him, but who knows if that is really what is going on.

If the lions figure they are not a playoff team next season anyway there's probably no cost to seeing what a change of scenery does for Goff.

I can imagine some people not responding well to McVay’s style. 

Also, the Rams do not have a QB coach, and they have a rookie OC. I doubt Goff was getting much coaching. And when Gurley went down, and the offense started to sputter, McVay threw his QB under the bus. 

If I was Goff I’d probably want out too. 

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22 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Look at Stafford and look at Goff's numbers. Stafford regressed after a big season in 2011. Those Joe Lombardi days were not good. I still believe there is upside to Goff. He's still young. The Lions have the luxury of finding out if there is and have multiple picks. 

the knock on Stafford was always 'gunslinger', that he was undisciplined and made too many costly errors trying to salvage plays he should have just given up on. Wasn't that the whole point of bringing in Caldwell? That he was a guy who could calm Stafford down? 

The issue with Goff seems less well defined. Motivation? Personality conflict with McVay, nagging injuries - there are semi-chronic injuries that are better one week and worse the next and that would be the kind of thing I can imagine some coaches would not relate to or have any tolerance for.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see. 

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I'll be honest, I don't get this for the Rams. Stafford is likely an upgrade but he isn't a Watson type upgrade and is 7 years older. I really think the Rams are playing with fire by going 7 years without a draft pick. They've essentially traded 4 first round picks for Matthew Stafford. 

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

the knock on Stafford was always 'gunslinger', that he was undisciplined and made too many costly errors trying to salvage plays he should have just given up on. Wasn't that the whole point of bringing in Caldwell? That he was a guy who could calm Stafford down? 

The issue with Goff seems less well defined. Motivation? Personality conflict with McVay, nagging injuries - there are semi-chronic injuries that are better one week and worse the next and that would be the kind of thing I can imagine some coaches would relate to of have any tolerance for.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see. 

That's the great thing about this trade. It isn't Stafford for Goff. Goff is an upside piece that comes with two 1st round picks. If Goff regains his former form, this is an absolute steal. I don't think it's unreasonable to think a 26 year old QB can regain his form. 

As great as Calvin Johnson was, I do think he affected Stafford. Stafford tried to force it to Calvin. Once Calvin retired, Stafford became a better QB. 

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4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'll be honest, I don't get this for the Rams. Stafford is likely an upgrade but he isn't a Watson type upgrade and is 7 years older. I really think the Rams are playing with fire by going 7 years without a draft pick. They've essentially traded 4 first round picks for Matthew Stafford. 

Unlike the Lions, they are playing for the present, not the future.

I get it overall, Stafford is an upgrade over Goff. Although I don't think Stafford makes them a slam dunk for the Super Bowl either... they'll still have to get thru Green Bay and Tampa, let alone their own division (which is probably the toughest in the NFC)

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3 minutes ago, The Ronz said:

Stafford leads the Rams to back to back championships in 2022 and 2023.

Thus, the Lions get two crappy picks.

SOL!  :)

:alien:

 

 

It's still a great trade for the Lions. 

Good to see you.

👍

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21 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'll be honest, I don't get this for the Rams. Stafford is likely an upgrade but he isn't a Watson type upgrade and is 7 years older. I really think the Rams are playing with fire by going 7 years without a draft pick. They've essentially traded 4 first round picks for Matthew Stafford. 

It definitely has the potential to backfire but at the same time they may feel their window is the next couple years and Stafford could be the QB that puts them over the top.   

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I like the fact the picks are spread over three drafts. That gives cover in case one draft turns out to be weak. It also presents the opportunity that Stafford could have a season ending injury in one of the next two seasons and the Rams implode and they get a high pick. It also gives the Lions ammunition in multiple drafts to move up. Brad Holmes first move as a Lion appears to be a winner. He had to trade Stafford and came away with two firsts and a young QB with potential. 

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35 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

That's the great thing about this trade. It isn't Stafford for Goff. Goff is an upside piece that comes with two 1st round picks.

Yup. He is door #3 when you already have the appliances and the vacation package.

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