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Mr.TaterSalad

Matt Patricia/Bob Quinn fired - Holmes/Cambell Hired as GM/Coach

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1 hour ago, Longgone said:

You value Pitts because he has rare skills. He's not redundant to Hockenson, he'd play with him. He's a chess piece. You can put him in the backfield, in the slot, outside, in motion. He can run a full tree. He can help both the passing and running game. He and Hockenson together would create a lot of mismatches.

Pitts is a big receiver.  he's not going to block like we think of tight ends blocking.

but you draft him because he's an amazing receiver and a matchup nightmare for defenses.

the guy dominated alabama, that's pretty damn good.

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8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

Pitts is a big receiver.  he's not going to block like we think of tight ends blocking.

but you draft him because he's an amazing receiver and a matchup nightmare for defenses.

the guy dominated alabama, that's pretty damn good.

That's the key, the NFL is all about creating matchup problems, doesn't matter the position, you want guys that create problems for the opposition and Pitts does that.   

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Pitts is a unique talent and looks like a stud.

Still, this team can’t draft TE in the top 8 in 2 of the last 3 drafts.   It’s a luxury their lack of overall talent doesn’t afford them.   

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1 minute ago, Hongbit said:

Pitts is a unique talent and looks like a stud.

Still, this team can’t draft TE in the top 8 in 2 of the last 3 drafts.   It’s a luxury their lack of overall talent doesn’t afford them.   

Hock and Pitts are TE only by old school archaic ways of labeling positions.   Hock is a great blocker that can move to the slot, he's basically an extra blocker that has the ability to catch the ball.   Pitts is a playmaker that can play all over the field.    They are multi dimensional players that can impact the game in multiple ways and create mismatches.  That's what you want!

It's like the people that lazily labeled Jamal Adams a safety and wondered why the Seahawks traded 2 firsts for a "safety".  It's the same old archaic ways of labeling players by positions, yes he was technically a safety by the old school way of naming positions but he also would line up as an edge linebacker, play a spy linebacker, be a rush defender, nickel corner and so much more.  That's why he got 2 firsts.   

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hockenson is a tight end.  pitts is a wide receiver.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

hockenson is a tight end.  pitts is a wide receiver.

Coming out of college Hock was a much better blocker than your standard TE.   He was basically touted as a tackle that could run a 4.6 and catch passes.    That's why he was drafted and rated as highly as he was.      

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11 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Coming out of college Hock was a much better blocker than your standard TE.   He was basically touted as a tackle that could run a 4.6 and catch passes.    That's why he was drafted and rated as highly as he was.      

yeah well....he's not that.

he's a nice move-the-chains tight end who is an ok blocker.  he's not travis kelce.

which is ok!  there arent many travis kelce's in the world.

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

yeah well....he's not that.

he's a nice move-the-chains tight end who is an ok blocker.  he's not travis kelce.

which is ok!  there arent many travis kelce's in the world.

Hock's 2nd year numbers mirror Kelce's except Hock was younger than him after 2 seasons and was viewed as a much superior prospect.  

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1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

Hock's 2nd year numbers mirror Kelce's except Hock was younger than him after 2 seasons and was viewed as a much superior prospect.  

you've watched them both play, i assume?  hockenson will need to learn how to not fall down after he catches the ball to be kelce.

he's still young, plenty of time to get better.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

you've watched them both play, i assume?  hockenson will need to learn how to not fall down after he catches the ball to be kelce.

he's still young, plenty of time to get better.

Agree and by no means am I predicting he will be Kelce nor do I expect.  My original point about him though was that he was drafted and labeled a "TE" but that is an outdated term.   It's not like he was drafted that early to be your old cliche TE that lines up tight and catches 5-10 yard passes, he was drafted that high cause he could block like a lineman yet was agile enough to play the slot and catch passes.   What guys are labeled at isn't important it's how versatile and the matchup problems they can create which is important.  

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To use a basketball analogy it would be like passing on Cade Cunningham cause he is a "Point Guard" and they shouldn't be drafted early.  Sure he is labeled a "Point Guard" but he is so much more than that.  

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6 hours ago, Buddha said:

hockenson is a tight end.  pitts is a wide receiver.

Let’s wait and see what Pitts runs. If he runs under 4.5 then maybe he could be looked at that way.   Anything higher and he’s a TE. 

This organization doesn’t fall in love with Florida Gators tape and disregard their combine numbers anymore.   

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6 hours ago, Buddha said:

yeah well....he's not that.

he's a nice move-the-chains tight end who is an ok blocker.  he's not travis kelce.

which is ok!  there arent many travis kelce's in the world.

It's not ok given that he was drafted at #8 though. We drafted Hockenson with the expectation that we'd be getting Travis Kelce stats: 1,200 yards, 75+ receptions, and 6-8+ TDs.

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17 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

It's not ok given that he was drafted at #8 though. We drafted Hockenson with the expectation that we'd be getting Travis Kelce stats: 1,200 yards, 75+ receptions, and 6-8+ TDs.

Yet if we draft a WR at 7, expectation would be less. We wouldn't expect Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss production. 

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1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

Let’s wait and see what Pitts runs. If he runs under 4.5 then maybe he could be looked at that way.   Anything higher and he’s a TE. 

This organization doesn’t fall in love with Florida Gators tape and disregard their combine numbers anymore.   

If he runs under a 4.5, he's basically Calvin Johnson. Johnson was essentially a TE playing WR. From the highlights I've seen, Pitts doesn't seem as fast as Johnson. I think he runs more in the 4.6-4.7 range. 

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If he runs under a 4.5, he's basically Calvin Johnson. Johnson was essentially a TE playing WR. From the highlights I've seen, Pitts doesn't seem as fast as Johnson. I think he runs more in the 4.6-4.7 range. 

Calvin ran a 4.35 at the combine

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Yeah, that's under a 4.5 no? 

There is a big difference between 4.35 (one of the fastest times at the combine) and 4.49.

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1 minute ago, 4hzglory said:

There is a big difference between 4.35 (one of the fastest times at the combine) and 4.49.

Under 4.5 could be 4.2. At 6'6 and 240 pounds, if he's running in the 4.4's, he's approaching Calvin Johnson territory. 

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Under 4.5 could be 4.2. At 6'6 and 240 pounds, if he's running in the 4.4's, he's approaching Calvin Johnson territory. 

That I will agree with.  Calvin Johnson was faster than Ted Ginn Jr. who is known for his speed.  Calvin was a freak plain and simple.  

At the 2007 combine, there were 3 players that ran faster than 4.35.  There were 60 that ran faster than 4.50  19 ran faster than 4.40.

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But if Calvin was listed at as a TE would people have bitched if we drafted him? 

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2 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

That I will agree with.  Calvin Johnson was faster than Ted Ginn Jr. who is known for his speed.  Calvin was a freak plain and simple.  

At the 2007 combine, there were 3 players that ran faster than 4.35.  There were 60 that ran faster than 4.50  19 ran faster than 4.40.

To do some further comparison:

In 2020, 2 players ran faster than 4.35, 12 ran faster than 4.40, and 54 faster than 4.50.  Johnson wasn't a TE.  He was one of the fastest receivers in a tight ends body.

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4 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

That I will agree with.  Calvin Johnson was faster than Ted Ginn Jr. who is known for his speed.  Calvin was a freak plain and simple.  

At the 2007 combine, there were 3 players that ran faster than 4.35.  There were 60 that ran faster than 4.50  19 ran faster than 4.40.

Someone at 6'6 and 240 pounds running a 4.4 would be pretty impressive. That size and speed is a rare combination. I have my doubts he is a sub 4.5 guy though. We forget just how big Calvin Johnson was. He was a TE with WR skill and speed.  

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

Someone at 6'6 and 240 pounds running a 4.4 would be pretty impressive. That size and speed is a rare combination. I have my doubts he is a sub 4.5 guy though. We forget just how big Calvin Johnson was. He was a TE with WR skill and speed.  

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  Calvin was huge and ran a great time, but he was 20-30lbs lighter than most Tight Ends.  Calvin was a huge WR with great skill and speed, but he would have been a light TE.

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2 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  Calvin was huge and ran a great time, but he was 20-30lbs lighter than most Tight Ends.  Calvin was a huge WR with great skill and speed, but he would have been a light TE.

He weighs the same as Pitts. If Pitts doesn't run a 4.4, than what is he? He's too light to be a TE and given he's an inch taller than Johnson not really as big. He would probably be too slow to be an outside receiver if he's running 4.6. 

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