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Houston at Detroit Thanksgiving Classic


Tigeraholic1
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Also I just want to add that I don't know who gets credit for this but somebody on the coaching staff has done a good job cause this team shouldn't even be 4-7 with the talent they have.   If Staff was playing like he was last year I would just give him all the credit but he's been a mid tier QB at best this year.   This team seriously has less talent than any team in the league with the exception of a few, they really should only have a win or 2.     Somebody on the coaching staff is doing a decent job to even make this team somewhat respectable.  

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Also I just want to add that I don't know who gets credit for this but somebody on the coaching staff has done a good job cause this team shouldn't even be 4-7 with the talent they have.   If Staff was playing like he was last year I would just give him all the credit but he's been a mid tier QB at best this year.   This team seriously has less talent than any team in the league with the exception of a few, they really should only have a win or 2.     Somebody on the coaching staff is doing a decent job to even make this team somewhat respectable.  

Is this team any less talented than the one that ended the Caldwell era? 

What makes you think this team is even remotely respectable? They are a Stafford injury away from being the worst team in the league, Stafford (and Gurley) won them the Atlanta and Washington games. They are near the bottom of the league in nearly every statistical category outside of passing which is somewhere in the middle. It's not the most talented team but this coaching staff is getting the least out of its talent. Name one defensive player, outside of Okwara, that has progressed under this sorry excuse of a coach? Everybody makes fun of the gameplan and scheme from writers to announcers to opposition fans.There's nothing respectable about this team, they're an embarrassment. 

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5 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Is this team any less talented than the one that ended the Caldwell era? 

What makes you think this team is even remotely respectable? They are a Stafford injury away from being the worst team in the league, Stafford won them the Atlanta and Washington games. They are near the bottom of the league in nearly every statistical category outside of passing which is somewhere in the middle. It's not the most talented team but this coaching staff is getting the least out of its talent. Name one defensive player, outside of Okwara, that has progressing under this sorry excuse of a coach? Everybody makes fun of the gameplan and scheme from writers to announcers to opposition fans.There's nothing respectable about this team, they're an embarrassment. 

They are far worse than the Caldwell era relative to the league.  While other teams have gotten years of contribution from draft picks the Lions best picks are a TE with like 500 yards, a RB with a couple good games and a couple blockers in Ragnow and Jackson.    If they traded their entire drafts the past 3 seasons and replaced them with practice squad players we would hardly notice a difference.   When that is the case you are losing a TON of ground to the rest of the league.    

The talent on this squad is absolutely horrible, going by talent they should be getting embarrassed every single game ala the 08 team.   

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there's been a lot of revisionist history around jim caldwell in this town lately.  

other than 2014, none of caldwell's teams were good (and 2014 is kind of overrated too if you look at the stats).  the 9-7 playoff team was all stafford saving them in the 4th quarter.

the problem was not firing caldwell, it was quinn failing to acquire enough talented players, hiring patricia, and running the team into the ground.

patricia was not wrong when he said the team needed an overhaul when he got here.  the problem is that the guy doing the overhaul isnt good at it.

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6 hours ago, Buddha said:

there's been a lot of revisionist history around jim caldwell in this town lately.  

other than 2014, none of caldwell's teams were good (and 2014 is kind of overrated too if you look at the stats).  the 9-7 playoff team was all stafford saving them in the 4th quarter.

the problem was not firing caldwell, it was quinn failing to acquire enough talented players, hiring patricia, and running the team into the ground.

patricia was not wrong when he said the team needed an overhaul when he got here.  the problem is that the guy doing the overhaul isnt good at it.

Yup - college sports is the domain of coaches, but pro sports is mostly the realm of GMs.  They should have fired Quinn 5 minutes after he drafted Teez Tabor.

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12 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

True but if they fired him at this point they likely wouldn't be able to hire somebody from another organization instead it would just go to somebody within to be the interim.  So those same fans would complain about that and say it's another Mayhew situation all over again.    

Wait what?

Of course someone would be in the interim, then in the offseason they'd hire a full time guy? Do you think fans would think the interim guy is the full time? I'm not following waht you're getting at here. 

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9 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Teams just don't fire guys at this point in the season in the NFL.  It's a rarity.   There is little benefit to changing regimes this late in the season that's why teams rarely do it.     

Ron Rivera was fired at this point last year. Mike McCarthy in 2017, Hugh Jackson in 2018, Ben MacAdoo with the giants in 2017 in the last three seasons. 

Doesn't seem all that rare

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9 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

It's not about being gained, it's about what you could lose if you do so.  If they fire Patricia tomorrow and they replace him with say Bevell.  If the Lions finish 4-1 should Bevell be hired full time?   I wouldn't want him, I would think it was a fluke but fans and other influences may suggest he deserves it so he ends up getting the job.    Or how about if they replace with somebody else and that guy goes 0-5 cause the Lions suck, he would instantly get eliminated from being the next coach even if he may have been the right choice but just failed cause these weren't his players and there wasn't time to adapt them to his system.   

Just let this train wreck finish out and start fresh at the end of the season.   

LOL this is just weird thinking. Randy do you have your head screwed on right?

Plenty of times interim coaches have done well to not even being considered. Other times they've done terrible and gotten hired by the current or another team. Nobody reads jack crap into how an interim coach does. 

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7 hours ago, Buddha said:

there's been a lot of revisionist history around jim caldwell in this town lately.  

other than 2014, none of caldwell's teams were good (and 2014 is kind of overrated too if you look at the stats).  the 9-7 playoff team was all stafford saving them in the 4th quarter.

the problem was not firing caldwell, it was quinn failing to acquire enough talented players, hiring patricia, and running the team into the ground.

patricia was not wrong when he said the team needed an overhaul when he got here.  the problem is that the guy doing the overhaul isnt good at it.

Well, it's revisionist because we compare it to what we have now. 

Caldwell's teams were more prepared.   Caldwell's teams were more competitive.   Caldwell's teams made the playoffs or were in the conversation in the last week 3 out of his 4 years here.  What was left after he left needed to be tweaked, not bulldozed.    Quinn ignores his own scouts and goes with his gut (Tebor, Tavai).  He lazily keeps going back to guys he had in New England (who would still be in New England if they were still good).   Caldwell was far, FAR better than Matt Patricia.   Not saying he's great.   If Caldwell was a better in-game coach this team would have won a game or two more each season because they had more talent - and lets face it, they got royally screwed by some terrible calls/rules.  The Seattle player tapping it out of bounds in the end zone (Theo Riddick saw it and tried),  The Atlanta 10 second runoff charged to the Lions (who didn't challenge the call).  .   I never got the impression that his teams were lifeless like the current team.     I think the Rogers Hail Mary play was enough to get Caldwell fired, but yes - comparing now to then Jim Caldwell is Vince Lombardi.  

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1 hour ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Ron Rivera was fired at this point last year. Mike McCarthy in 2017, Hugh Jackson in 2018, Ben MacAdoo with the giants in 2017 in the last three seasons. 

Doesn't seem all that rare

I stand corrected then, I guess I should've double checked instead of just going off memory cause I couldn't think of anybody fired this late in the season off the top of my head.   I still don't see much benefit in firing them now though and I don't think that just cause they didn't get fired now that they aren't going to be fired at the end of the season.   

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Quinn has been terrible and doesn’t deserve to stay on his own but the uniqueness of this system especially on defense has tied Quinn and Patricia at the hip.   They both have to go together.

The roster will need a complete overhaul on defense with a new coach.  There are so many parts that only fit in this system.  He tried to replicate the only thing that he knows and it failed.   It makes no sense to let him try again with something new that he’s never done.   A new guy needs to come in to tear it all down and rebuild it.  
 

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11 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Also I just want to add that I don't know who gets credit for this but somebody on the coaching staff has done a good job cause this team shouldn't even be 4-7 with the talent they have.   If Staff was playing like he was last year I would just give him all the credit but he's been a mid tier QB at best this year.   This team seriously has less talent than any team in the league with the exception of a few, they really should only have a win or 2.     Somebody on the coaching staff is doing a decent job to even make this team somewhat respectable.  

I think Covid has more to do with it than anyone on the coaching staff.  It changed the dynamics of playing on the road and made it it significantly easier without the crowd.  I doubt they would’ve won 3 road games at this point in a normal season. 

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2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Quinn has been terrible and doesn’t deserve to stay on his own but the uniqueness of this system especially on defense has tied Quinn and Patricia at the hip.   They both have to go together.

The roster will need a complete overhaul on defense with a new coach.  There are so many parts that only fit in this system.  He tried to replicate the only thing that he knows and it failed.   It makes no sense to let him try again with something new that he’s never done.   A new guy needs to come in to tear it all down and rebuild it.  
 

Yes, they're a package deal, and they'll both have to go at once. This makes a mid-season firing more difficult, especially since Quinn's obvious interim successors in the front office are both guys he brought in with Patriots connections. That said, the salary cap guy, Mike Disner, is a West Bloomfield native, and ought to be able to keep the trains running until the end of the season.

Ultimately the next GM hire is more important than any other decision -- including whether to take a QB with the next 1st round pick (or which one to take, assuming there is no chance at Lawrence). The longer they can have the position open, and the more advice they can gather and candidates they can explore, the better.

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