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That second championship would have cemented it.  Sadly a bonehead move by Sheed killed one game and then Pop simply out-coached LB in the second half of the final game to take it.  LB had no answer for the guard cross-match that Pop laid on him and no time to go to film and correct it since it was the second half of game 7.

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10 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I think NBA people underrate that 2004 Piston team cause of their final standings instead of basing it off of the team post Sheed.   After they got Sheed that year they lost the first 2 games where he was getting accumulated to the team but after that they went 21-2 when all 5 starters played with 1 of the losses being by a single point.    

Their expected W/L total was 60-22 which was 2nd best in the league but if you include just the team after Sheed then that total jumps close to 70.    

That team was just stacked with that starting 5 and the 6th man of the year in Corliss, Okur, Mike James and Lindsay Hunter coming off the bench.   I think they are legit one of the best championship teams this century but instead the average NBA fan just thinks of them as the underdog team that beat the Lakers when in reality post Sheed that team was freaking dominant.  

That Piston team won 54 games and the heavily favored Lakers won 56. I think a lot had to do with the fact the Pistons were in a weak Eastern Conference. I also think the Lakers "four hall of famers" were over hyped since Malone and Payton were in the twilight of their careers, but Shaq and Kobe still won 3 of the previous championships. 

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4 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

That second championship would have cemented it.  Sadly a bonehead move by Sheed killed one game and then Pop simply out-coached LB in the second half of the final game to take it.  LB had no answer for the guard cross-match that Pop laid on him and no time to go to film and correct it since it was the second half of game 7.

I think I erased most of that series from my memory but I seem to remember Ginobili absolutely killing us as one point.  Also we all remember Sheed's boneheaded play but IIRC didn't Horry score like 20 some points that final quarter?  How was that possible? 

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I seem to recall the Pistons had a lead going into the 4th quarter of game 7 in 2005. I believe Bruce Bowen had been guarding Hamilton all series and then in the 4th quarter of game 7 he switched on Billups and the Pistons couldn't get anything going. 

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After the devastating game 5 loss the fact that the Pistons won game 6 at SA and led most of game 7 should be another feather in their cap.  The Spurs only lost 3 times all regular season at home.  A lesser team could've threw in the towel after that game 5 but the Pistons fought to the very end.  

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Don't forget the ECF that year. They were down 3-2 to a Miami team that going into the ECF was undefeated in the playoffs. I seem to remember the Pistons were down something like 5 points somewhat late in the 4th quarter in game 7. 

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the 04 team only won once.  people dismiss them.

but they kept getting beat in the playoffs by teams they should have beaten.  so they will be remembered for that.

in hindsight, the malice in the palace did them a favor because that indiana team was better than them.

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3 minutes ago, Buddha said:

the 04 team only won once.  people dismiss them.

but they kept getting beat in the playoffs by teams they should have beaten.  so they will be remembered for that.

in hindsight, the malice in the palace did them a favor because that indiana team was better than them.

The only team I thought they lost to that they were clearly better than was 2007 Cleveland. The 2006 Heat won the championship and took them to 7 games in 2005 with an injured Wade and the 2008 Celtics won the championship and had 66 wins. 

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

the 04 team only won once.  people dismiss them.

but they kept getting beat in the playoffs by teams they should have beaten.  so they will be remembered for that.

in hindsight, the malice in the palace did them a favor because that indiana team was better than them.

That Indiana team may have been better than the 05 team but they weren't better than the 04 team.  The 05 team didn't have Corliss Williamson who was the best 6th man at the time, Memhet Okur or Mike James(who was one of the better two way guards off the bench at the time and fit the team perfectly).  Plus I think Sheed was at his Piston peak in 04.   

I do understand when you only win 1 you kinda get forgotten about, but I just think that specific Pistons team is severely underrated among great NBA teams of the past 20 or so years.  

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This thought just popped into my head. More time has elapsed since the Pistons last won a championship than between the Bad Boys and 2004 Championship. 

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sheed loafed his way through so many games.  he could have been an all time great player.

the 04 team - once it got sheed - was a great team.

they should have beat the cavs and the heat.  they should have gone to 4 straight finals, imo.

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

sheed loafed his way through so many games.  he could have been an all time great player.

I’ve been hearing that crap ever since I was at UNC. I’m out there busting my *** every night.  Tell your old man to drag Shaq and Duncan up and down the court for 48 minutes.  

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I think they definitely should've beaten that Cavs team but unfortunately Lebron went beast mode in game 5 and Daniel Gibson played out of his mind in game 6.   

That 06 Heat team was tough though, I was actually on vacation during the series so I didn't watch it at all but they were a tough out in 05 and Wade had only gotten better since then.  

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2007 was inexcusable. They had a 2-0 series lead. It's one thing if Lebron takes over but they let a guy named Boobie take over an elimination game. 

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25 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

2007 was inexcusable. They had a 2-0 series lead. It's one thing if Lebron takes over but they let a guy named Boobie take over an elimination game. 

I forgot they had a 2-0 lead.  Its funny I went back to look at scores from that series to try to drum up some memories and I completely forgot about Webber being on the Pistons that year.lol  

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6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I forgot they had a 2-0 lead.  Its funny I went back to look at scores from that series to try to drum up some memories and I completely forgot about Webber being on the Pistons that year.lol  

They just weren't the same defensively without Ben Wallace. I think that's the reason they lost in 2007. 

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Watching this 2004 game 5 and seeing Kobe Bryant, Aretha Franklin and Stuart Scott are no longer with us. 

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

sheed loafed his way through so many games.  he could have been an all time great player.

the 04 team - once it got sheed - was a great team.

they should have beat 'the cavs and the heat.  they should have gone to 4 straight finals, imo.

I always wondered if 'Sheed was a bum or he was just physically incapable of sustaining a high energy output every night. But then again, I'm amazed that any  NBA forecourt players can put out the energy they do and sustain the beating that running around at those those body masses entails.

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I just think Rasheed was comfortable being the 3rd or 4th option. Rasheed was a good defender. Generally players who loaf don't play any defense. 

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I always wondered if 'Sheed was a bum or he was just physically incapable of sustaining a high energy output every night. But then again, I'm amazed that any  NBA forecourt players can put out the energy they do and sustain the beating that running around at those those body masses entails.

I don't know if it was due to effort or an actual physical limitation but him not being able to give 100% all the time or atleast not give it enough compared to other players was always an issue with him.  That's why he was drafted behind lesser prospects like McDyess and Joe Smith in 95, why Washington got rid of him less than 2 years after drafting him and why the Pistons got him for as little as they did.  

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14 hours ago, Betrayer said:

That second championship would have cemented it.  Sadly a bonehead move by Sheed killed one game and then Pop simply out-coached LB in the second half of the final game to take it.  LB had no answer for the guard cross-match that Pop laid on him and no time to go to film and correct it since it was the second half of game 7.

The guard cross-match was a fantastic move.  Holding onto that trump card until it was used so that the Pistons couldn't counter in time was brilliant in its own way.  I have to believe it was intended that way.  To have that patience to wait was impressive.

The Wallace defensive lapse was pretty awful.  It did kill one game.  I don't know if the Pistons win the series if he maintains his defensive assignment, I just don't think it can just be assumed that the Pistons take that series after that.  Those teams were a pretty even match up with each other.

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I will always believe that Sheed could have been one of, it not the best, PF of all time.  He had more tools than Tim Duncan.  The only thing missing was in his head.  He didn't have the work ethic or killer instinct to be one of the greats.  Of course, if he did then we would never have gotten him in 04 for a bag of balls.

The guard cross-match:  Bowen's strength and length cancelled out Billups, but Parker's speed also cancelled out Rip who didn't have the skill set to make use of his size advantage.  LB couldn't adapt fast enough in game and so that was the coaching move that won the series for them.

After that it was all over.  Joe did everything he could to dismantle the team he had created by injecting a jump-shot oriented, regular season coach into a playoff built, defensive team.  That was it.  Naturally Ben wasn't hanging around for that. And then it was over.

I often wonder if things would look different had we stuck with Carlisle.  Would he have won the 04 championship with the addition of Sheed? Would having a coach that wasn't distracted by other jobs and surgeries have been the difference in 05?  Would their championship window have been extended with Rick in the driver's seat over the next few years rather than Flip?

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9 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

I will always believe that Sheed could have been one of, it not the best, PF of all time.  He had more tools than Tim Duncan.  The only thing missing was in his head.  He didn't have the work ethic or killer instinct to be one of the greats.  Of course, if he did then we would never have gotten him in 04 for a bag of balls.

The guard cross-match:  Bowen's strength and length cancelled out Billups, but Parker's speed also cancelled out Rip who didn't have the skill set to make use of his size advantage.  LB couldn't adapt fast enough in game and so that was the coaching move that won the series for them.

After that it was all over.  Joe did everything he could to dismantle the team he had created by injecting a jump-shot oriented, regular season coach into a playoff built, defensive team.  That was it.  Naturally Ben wasn't hanging around for that. And then it was over.

I often wonder if things would look different had we stuck with Carlisle.  Would he have won the 04 championship with the addition of Sheed? Would having a coach that wasn't distracted by other jobs and surgeries have been the difference in 05?  Would their championship window have been extended with Rick in the driver's seat over the next few years rather than Flip?

I don't know how to qualify Rasheed.  I appreciate the fact the he wasn't the type to be a focal point.  I do think he seemed to have a team first approach and he fit in so seemlessly.  I don't know, I could easily be wrong about that.

I have wondered about Carlisle in the past as well.  It was brought up in my mind again when Jackson replacing Collins was brought up in The Last Dance.  Not necessarily the game strategy, but just the general philosophy of changing a coach on the team ascent.  We'll just never know.

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Ben Wallace was also 32 when he left. Even if he stayed, he declined while playing in Chicago. I'm not sure they would have been much better off.

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17 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I think NBA people underrate that 2004 Piston team cause of their final standings instead of basing it off of the team post Sheed.   After they got Sheed that year they lost the first 2 games where he was getting accumulated to the team but after that they went 21-2 when all 5 starters played with 1 of the losses being by a single point.    

Their expected W/L total was 60-22 which was 2nd best in the league but if you include just the team after Sheed then that total jumps close to 70.    

That team was just stacked with that starting 5 and the 6th man of the year in Corliss, Okur, Mike James and Lindsay Hunter coming off the bench.   I think they are legit one of the best championship teams this century but instead the average NBA fan just thinks of them as the underdog team that beat the Lakers when in reality post Sheed that team was freaking dominant.  

No superstars, that's why they never get any respect, and only one championship. The reality is that the beatdown (5 game sweep) of that Lakers team, which was supposed to be a Super Team, was as thorough as any beatdown in recent Finals memory. It was a really good team. The Warriors with Durant was clearly the best of this century IMO but the '04 Pistons line up well with just about any other team of the 2000s.

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