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Coronavirus: Coming to a Neighborhood Near You?

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35 minutes ago, Kacie said:

I don't have an answer for you and I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there's no national plan.  Until there is an actual testing and contract tracing plan and masks aren't made to be a political statement, I don't really see how a lock down will help. 

While I voted for Biden this year, this is kind of why I laugh when he says he has a national plan.  Basically his plan is to promote mask use.  Trump did the damage already by not preparing as soon as he knew it was an issue (which we know now was much earlier than he ever let on).  Biden, nor anyone, can go back and change that.

As far as contact tracing, there really should be no talk of that right now.  We simply don't have the resources to deal with that based on the current numbers.  It's like saying you want nice roads, but choosing to live in Michigan, it aint' gonna happen.

I only hope, after a Biden win and Dem control of house/senate, instead of focusing on court packing, we do a national shutdown and hope the republicans go along (maybe even trick them into thinking if they do go along, a bad economy will stifle Biden).  Get some control to it, then come out with masks/contact tracing, etc.  

It's no surprise to any of us that paid attention to the science with this virus that fall/winter were going to bad, I just don't think any of us expected to see record numbers before November.  

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36 minutes ago, Kacie said:

I don't think anything will change until a significant number of younger, white middle/upper middle class people start dying from it. 

and it isn't going to happen. We've  have 5007 confirmed cases in Washtenaw county, 119 deaths of which one was under 50 years of age and that was in early April before the hospitals knew what they were doing. The odds that covid19 kills you if you are young and in reasonable health are too low for people to feel themselves at enough risk to drive their behavior much. 

I'm beginning to wonder if we don't need to re-align our efforts more sharply toward protecting the vulnerable and give up trying to get the people who are at low risk to make the effort to protect others. I'm not sure exactly what that would look like but what we are doing is sure not working.

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1 hour ago, Kacie said:

I don't have an answer for you and I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there's no national plan.  Until there is an actual testing and contract tracing plan and masks aren't made to be a political statement, I don't really see how a lock down will help.  The people like us will follow the rules, the young people and the Trump turds won't.  Cases will go down a bit because of that, but then it opens back up and wash, rinse, repeat.  FFS, there was a plot to kidnap and kill the Governor because of her lockdown last time.  She's been denied authority in court.  With all the volatility that's surrounding the election, you really think that 30-40% is going to follow any kind of a shutdown again?

It's ******* depressing.  I work in healthcare, and it's astounding to see the number or highly educated professionals who think masks don't work, shutdowns don't work, muh freedoms etc.  I don't think anything will change until a significant number of younger, white middle/upper middle class people start dying from it.  Even then, it's not a given.  Saw a pic of a guy at a Trump rally and his shirt said  "My son died of Covid and I still support Trump!"  How do you reason with those types?

 

Yeah, I guess I don't understand that much at all either.

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38 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

It's no surprise to any of us that paid attention to the science with this virus that fall/winter were going to bad, I just don't think any of us expected to see record numbers before November.  

I work in shelf stable foods, and I can tell you that there is enough of a deviation in plans from our typically seasonal and annual plans to suggest that there is an expectation of continued increased eating in vs eating out as well as possibility for another extended shutdown.

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5 hours ago, Casimir said:

There might not be any help from Washington in the interim, but there wasn't any at all at the beginning when this started either, and there were shutdowns and restrictions put in place.

We might be in a better place with respect to treatments and survival rates and that kind of thing, and the PPE supply is probably better stocked now.  But if case rates increase and hospitals become overrun again (hearing some of that in a few states) and/or spikes overcome certain areas / places of employ, etc, what happens then?

The worst part of our outbreak here is in South Texas.  I know that they are transferring Covid patients from El Paso etc. up here to North Texas hospitals because they are running out of beds for them down there.

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4 hours ago, ewsieg said:

While I voted for Biden this year, this is kind of why I laugh when he says he has a national plan.  Basically his plan is to promote mask use.  Trump did the damage already by not preparing as soon as he knew it was an issue (which we know now was much earlier than he ever let on).  Biden, nor anyone, can go back and change that.

As far as contact tracing, there really should be no talk of that right now.  We simply don't have the resources to deal with that based on the current numbers.  It's like saying you want nice roads, but choosing to live in Michigan, it aint' gonna happen.

I only hope, after a Biden win and Dem control of house/senate, instead of focusing on court packing, we do a national shutdown and hope the republicans go along (maybe even trick them into thinking if they do go along, a bad economy will stifle Biden).  Get some control to it, then come out with masks/contact tracing, etc.  

It's no surprise to any of us that paid attention to the science with this virus that fall/winter were going to bad, I just don't think any of us expected to see record numbers before November.  

I feel as though the country is oriented to thinking of managing COVID as belonging at the state level.

I think it could be argued that the federal government has a right to implement a national mask mandate or some level of shutdown for the same reason they get to govern interstate commerce: the problem is neither contained nor containable only within states. It’s a national problem spreading across interstate lines. The federal government has a right to take action to combat the disease.

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26 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I feel as though the country is oriented to thinking of managing COVID as belonging at the state level.

I think it could be argued that the federal government has a right to implement a national mask mandate or some level of shutdown for the same reason they get to govern interstate commerce: the problem is neither contained nor containable only within states. It’s a national problem spreading across interstate lines. The federal government has a right to take action to combat the disease.

The Federal Govs role here should be money, standards, economic resource management, coordination and bully pulpitting. The states have all the authority they need to deal with public health issues but do you have states that need incentives in places like MI where you have idiot legislatures that have been in denial or of course places like FL where the Gov is an idiot also. As it is, a lot of the resentment in the red counties of blue states was generated by state governments responding in a heavy handed manner to places the disease hadn't yet shown up instead of instituting metrics for counties to follow individually as it because appropriate. Instead we ended up with out state populations radicalized and now unwilling to act now even with the case loads exploding around them. Trump is responsible for most of this, but Lansing has played a part as well. The closer to home you let people make decisions on daily conduct the better compliance will be.

 

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The country isn't oriented to think that way.  It was Trump and Kushner's plan all along.  Let the Democratic Governors be the bad guys and do the shut downs, and Trump would ride in on his white horse and reopen the economy and be the hero.  

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But we’re rounding the corner.  Why we’re rounding rounding the corner on a hoax, I have no clue.  But we’re rounding the corner.

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28 minutes ago, Casimir said:

But we’re rounding the corner.  Why we’re rounding rounding the corner on a hoax, I have no clue.  But we’re rounding the corner.

But man on the Trump TeeVee ad just told me we took on the virus head on.

I guess he missed that part where it head butted us right into the mud.

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A couple weeks ago my cousin had a birthday party for their two kids. I didn’t go because they are Trumpers and don’t take the virus seriously, and knew they would have a packed house full of anti-maskers. My cousin’s uncle (my mom’s sister’s brother in law) tested positive for Covid. I didn’t know this until now, but he went to the party AFTER HE AND HIS WIFE TESTED POSITIVE. I’m ****ed. I have a lot of relatives that are immunocompromised. 

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13 minutes ago, tigerbomb13 said:

A couple weeks ago my cousin had a birthday party for their two kids. I didn’t go because they are Trumpers and don’t take the virus seriously, and knew they would have a packed house full of anti-maskers. My cousin’s uncle (my mom’s sister’s brother in law) tested positive for Covid. I didn’t know this until now, but he went to the party AFTER HE AND HIS WIFE TESTED POSITIVE. I’m ****ed. I have a lot of relatives that are immunocompromised. 

This is why I'm skeptical of doing another lockdown.  These types aren't going to follow the rules.  You can't fix stupid.

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1 hour ago, Kacie said:

This is why I'm skeptical of doing another lockdown.  These types aren't going to follow the rules.  You can't fix stupid.

We have to do what is needed to contain it. 

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1 hour ago, tigerbomb13 said:

A couple weeks ago my cousin had a birthday party for their two kids. I didn’t go because they are Trumpers and don’t take the virus seriously, and knew they would have a packed house full of anti-maskers. My cousin’s uncle (my mom’s sister’s brother in law) tested positive for Covid. I didn’t know this until now, but he went to the party AFTER HE AND HIS WIFE TESTED POSITIVE. I’m ****ed. I have a lot of relatives that are immunocompromised. 

OMG!   I would be ticked as well!
But you can’t trust anyone.  A friend had to be tested last week because of possible exposure from his son who lives with him.  “I am 18 and a MAN, so can do what I want” went on a weekend road trip to party with friends and came down sick within a couple of days of his return home.  

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8 hours ago, chasfh said:

I feel as though the country is oriented to thinking of managing COVID as belonging at the state level.

I think it could be argued that the federal government has a right to implement a national mask mandate or some level of shutdown for the same reason they get to govern interstate commerce: the problem is neither contained nor containable only within states. It’s a national problem spreading across interstate lines. The federal government has a right to take action to combat the disease.

I agree, but again, it's too late for that.  Once Trump delegated to the state, while turning the mask into a partisan issue, it was over.  Biden can demand and order all he wants at the federal level, but are you going to support him sending in the army to force individual sheriff's in red area's to enforce it?

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15 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I agree, but again, it's too late for that.  Once Trump delegated to the state, while turning the mask into a partisan issue, it was over.  Biden can demand and order all he wants at the federal level, but are you going to support him sending in the army to force individual sheriff's in red area's to enforce it?

No doubt the well is poisoned now. And the responsibility for all the unnecessary deaths that have occurred and will continue to occur lies in the lap one man.

The challenge that Biden will face trying to reconstruct some kind of national unity is probably as difficult in its own way as that FDR faced trying to build consensus for entry into WWII. In the end Japan took FDR off the hook.  I'm not sure what single event could straighten the country out on this issue that the way Pearl Harbor did, but it would be nice if one did - well at least without taking half the US Navy with it anyway!

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9 hours ago, ewsieg said:

I agree, but again, it's too late for that.  Once Trump delegated to the state, while turning the mask into a partisan issue, it was over.  Biden can demand and order all he wants at the federal level, but are you going to support him sending in the army to force individual sheriff's in red area's to enforce it?

Biden sending the army in to force local authorities to enforce compliance?

The army?

Come on.

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31 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Biden sending the army in to force local authorities to enforce compliance?

The army?

Come on.

National guard.  Essentially the same principle.   Legit question.  How would this be enforced by the federal government against states and counties?

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6 minutes ago, Melody said:

National guard.  Essentially the same principle.   Legit question.  How would this be enforced by the federal government against states and counties?

Really? Armed soldiers are going to descend on your neighborhood to force you against your will to comply with outdoor mask mandates?

Please.

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Really? Armed soldiers are going to descend on your neighborhood to force you against your will to comply with outdoor mask mandates?

Please.

I asked a question.  Do you not have an answer?

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1 minute ago, Melody said:

I asked a question.  Do you not have an answer?

Whatever it is, it’s not going to involve armed soldiers drawing weapons on local law enforcement over masks.

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21 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Whatever it is, it’s not going to involve armed soldiers drawing weapons on local law enforcement over masks.

The federal government will withhold funding that the states receive if they don’t comply with a federal law like that. In the past they have withheld money from the highway fund to get states to follow federal laws. They have done it to raise the drinking age to 21 and to impose the old 55 mph speed limit for example. 
 

You gotta pass a law, though. 

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42 minutes ago, Shelton said:

The federal government will withhold funding that the states receive if they don’t comply with a federal law like that. In the past they have withheld money from the highway fund to get states to follow federal laws. They have done it to raise the drinking age to 21 and to impose the old 55 mph speed limit for example. 
 

You gotta pass a law, though. 

I know Biden has talked about it, but I would not pass a federal law with a mask mandate - I'd pass something that has major financial carrots and sticks for getting incidence rates down, testing rates up  etc. If the local have enough +/- incentive, they will mandate local behaviors. At minimum if the Fed's were to do something direct - a mask mandate has to be tied to options based on an intelligent evaluation of local (i.e county level) conditions or you will just get more pushback.

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On 10/30/2020 at 9:50 PM, Sports_Freak said:

Many victims of the virus say the same thing; "we were very careful and did everything right". I just think it's so highly contagious,  you can catch it very easily. But doesn't an encounter with a lighter viral load create a milder case? 

Of course they SAY that...they do not want people thinking they "deserved it" (I do not think like that and think it is pretty crappy, but I also think a lot of people think like this).  I am calling it now before (and hopefully never) we get anything.  We stay far away from people when we do have to go out, we wear our masks, we wash our hands a ton and always did before anyway, but more now, sanitizer when getting in the car every time for all of us.  We NEVER wear shoes in the house (this is a big one I think and I am constantly shocked by how many people wear shoes in their home...I am sorry, but that is extremely gross), if we are in contact with a lot of people or in the general vicinity of people while out, we take all of our clothes off when we enter the house (laundry is right there), kids are homes schooled, I do not leave my office at work and it is a small office anyway, my wife....now she also wears a ton of PPE when seeing patients, but she does have to see them now they are no longer allowing telehealth visits, she showers as soon as she gets home, we have a great filtration system in our home and I even got one of those UV lights in the furnace to help kill bacteria/viruses in the filtration system.

I think the biggest thing (minus wearing the mask) for me has been being hyper aware about touching my face.  We slacked some on these things about a month ago and either got lucky or whatever because we are ok now, but with all the cases coming out we are back to being pretty hardcore about seeing people.  Wash my hands after getting the mail or a delivery.  I would put money on us not getting it and bringing it into the house, the only way it happens I think is if my mom brings it in because she watches our kids a couple times a week, but she is also super vigilant.  

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