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Coronavirus: Coming to a Neighborhood Near You?

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10 hours ago, ewsieg said:

freep.com

I know we're not supposed to criticize Whitmer on this site, but damn she's starting to infuriate me.  Can one Michiganian on this site tell me they saw, first hand, any difference in how businesses, schools, local government, have dealt with Covid since her EO's were struck down?    IDK, call me crazy, but is it also possible that the increase in cases could be linked to colder weather and schools back to face to face instruction.   Argh....

You mean the same schools where the Michigan Supreme Court ruled earlier this month students could not be forced to wear masks while being instructed face to face? Sure, that’s a possible link. I agree, how infuriating.

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4 minutes ago, pfife said:

The stuff you quoted from the article says that she said there "may be" a connection between the court order and the outbreak.   I think you're fake newsing it when you said she did a "stupid correlation" - all she said was there may be a correlation.  

It’s also not a “stupid correlation” because it is indisputable that there are now fewer restrictions than before, so there will inherently be increased spread. That doesn’t mean it’s 1:1, but there must be some correlation, and it’s worth mentioning. 
 

To act like she doesn’t have the best interests of the public in mind (just because she has a D next her name) is what is “infuriating.”

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20 minutes ago, pfife said:

The stuff you quoted from the article says that she said there "may be" a connection between the court order and the outbreak.   I think you're fake newsing it when you said she did a "stupid correlation" - all she said was there may be a correlation.  

"I mean, people are saying, smart people too....IDK, you tell me?  Is there a connection?" 

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You mean the same schools where the Michigan Supreme Court ruled earlier this month students could not be forced to wear masks while being instructed face to face? Sure, that’s a possible link. I agree, how infuriating.

If you're referring to k-12, currently there are no known outbreaks from this, so other guidelines being enacted must be helping.  When college led the way with going back to school, everyone knew college kids, even if they were doing their classes virtually, were going to party at night.  Am I wrong in this thinking?  And again, not saying Whitmer was wrong, but college towns have led the outbreaks we've seen in the last 4-6 weeks.  She had the power to do something about it before it happened and didn't, but now is taking shots at the Supreme Court for doing what the Supreme Court is supposed to do, check those powers.

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2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

"I mean, people are saying, smart people too....IDK, you tell me?  Is there a connection?" 

Yep, exactly my point.  "Is there a connection?" is totally different than "There is a connection".

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16 minutes ago, Shelton said:

To act like she doesn’t have the best interests of the public in mind (just because she has a D next her name) is what is “infuriating.”

I'm not saying that, in fact i've given her a lot of praise and have repeatedly stated that I wholeheartedly believe Michigan would have been in a much worse place if Schuette was governor.  There have been transparency issues I'm concerned about and I don't like the fact she keeps pushing for more executive power and now what i'm seeing is she already has an excuse in place.  If things go south, well, can't blame her, the court took away her power to do anything.

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1 minute ago, pfife said:

Yep, exactly my point.  "Is there a connection?" is totally different than "There is a connection".

Trump says this, he rightly gets blasted.  Whitmer says it, albeit in a better worded statement, and apparently it's all good.

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9 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Trump says this, he rightly gets blasted.  Whitmer says it, albeit in a better worded statement, and apparently it's all good.

Trump says what? I've never heard him suggest there was a correlation between dropping of restrictions & increase in coronavirus case counts which is what you're accusing Whitmer of saying.

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2 minutes ago, pfife said:

Trump says what?

The mock quote I used.  Take Corona on a national level, and just paraphasing, but we've all heard or seen Trump's tweets, generally goes something like this "The US is in line with all other countries, just have these blue states...blue managed, that skew up the death numbers.  Take those out and we're actually better than most countries, we're the best, but blue states...look at the numbers, lots of death in blue states...why?  That's what you need to question, what are these bad governors doing in these blue states... red states, the economy is great and they aren't seeing the deaths.  Smart people are asking this."

I mean, early on, there was a correlation, so, guess I was wrong when I thought he was an idiot as he said this crap.

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2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

The mock quote I used.  Take Corona on a national level, and just paraphasing, but we've all heard or seen Trump's tweets, generally goes something like this "The US is in line with all other countries, just have these blue states...blue managed, that skew up the death numbers.  Take those out and we're actually better than most countries, we're the best, but blue states...look at the numbers, lots of death in blue states...why?  That's what you need to question, what are these bad governors doing in these blue states... red states, the economy is great and they aren't seeing the deaths.  Smart people are asking this."

I mean, early on, there was a correlation, so, guess I was wrong when I thought he was an idiot as he said this crap.

I totally don't understand why you think people should react the exactly the same to different people saying totally different things, esp considering one of them was apparently a mock quote that no one actually said.

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32 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

If you're referring to k-12, currently there are no known outbreaks from this

Oh?

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And i'm getting off topic.  My concern with Whitmer is prior to Covid, she didn't do anything (as governor) to make me think she was willing to sit at a table and strike deals, which is some what surprising as her background in state politics indicated she could/would.  Covid comes in and I know the talking points is that she acted because she couldn't get congress to act with her, but there isn't a ton of evidence to support that she even tried.  

People on this board have been concerned for the last few years that Trump would find an 'emergency' to help him gain and keep more power.  An emergency pops up and he couldn't have delegated authority/power away from himself quicker and Whitmer had no problem taking the reigns.  I guess I don't understand at least having some thoughts in the back of your head that there could be long term affects.  I mean, right now the US supreme court should be a great reminder how a small power grab many years ago could lead to the complete inability to prevent a court transformation right at an election.

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You know what Whitmer hasn't said...............This is a hoax...................She's also never asked if injecting bleach or disinfectants was possible.  

I don't see people attacking Mike DeWine of Ohio like they have attacked Big Gretch, and Gee, I wonder why.     (I think they both did a good job of levelling with people).  

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8 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

And i'm getting off topic.  My concern with Whitmer is prior to Covid, she didn't do anything (as governor) to make me think she was willing to sit at a table and strike deals, which is some what surprising as her background in state politics indicated she could/would.  Covid comes in and I know the talking points is that she acted because she couldn't get congress to act with her, but there isn't a ton of evidence to support that she even tried.  

People on this board have been concerned for the last few years that Trump would find an 'emergency' to help him gain and keep more power.  An emergency pops up and he couldn't have delegated authority/power away from himself quicker and Whitmer had no problem taking the reigns.  I guess I don't understand at least having some thoughts in the back of your head that there could be long term affects.  I mean, right now the US supreme court should be a great reminder how a small power grab many years ago could lead to the complete inability to prevent a court transformation right at an election.

So maybe this is my bad, and it totally could be b/c I'm very cynical, but your whole first paragraph is, to me, a plus for Whitmer, not a negative.   The GOP at both the Michigan and federal level have demonstrated themselves repeatedly to not be acting in good faith, and as a wise person on youtube once said, "ain't nobody got time for that" nonsense in the middle of the pandemic.   

Regarding the second paragraph, you stated that "Whitmer had no problem taking the reigns".   I think b/c of Trump's abdication of basic duties, Whitmer had no choice but to take the reigns.   Whether or not she had a problem with it is really pretty irrelevant to me.   

It's also very strange to me that when we're going to discuss "leveraging emergency for a power grab" you go to *this*, rather than, say, declaring a state of emergency where one doesn't exist in order to bypass the constitutional authority of appropriations by the House of Representatives and fund a border wall.   

I'm not at all sold on the notion that implementing pretty reasonable restrictions in the face of the pandemic is a power grab.   That to me is just more evidence of GOP bad faith.  They had no issue with executive orders when they were in charge and there wasn't even an emergency to leverage for their abuses.

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Oh?

I guess I should have said no known issues of them being super spreader's.  Not sure if I consider a couple of kids in a district an outbreak but i'm probably wrong on my wording. That said, how much evidence that they got the virus from school or passed it on to others?   With the increase in numbers throughout the state, I would expect an increase in numbers in kids/faculty that go to school as well.  

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2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

You know what Whitmer hasn't said...............This is a hoax...................She's also never asked if injecting bleach or disinfectants was possible.  

I don't see people attacking Mike DeWine of Ohio like they have attacked Big Gretch, and Gee, I wonder why.     (I think they both did a good job of levelling with people).  

Nor have I said she deserves the attacks she has received and I know I didn't level any of those attacks.  I've questioned some of her decisions, and more so, questioned the lack of transparency that accompanied those decisions.  While I also hope Whitmer would work with congress to get what is needed for Michigan done, I understand it's easier to play with EO's to get what you want done.  My long term issue with that, if not checked, is someday you might have someone you don't like using those powers.

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If they use them in a pandemic I'd be ok with it.  Hopefully pandemics are once in a lifetime situations.

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16 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I guess I should have said no known issues of them being super spreader's.  Not sure if I consider a couple of kids in a district an outbreak but i'm probably wrong on my wording. That said, how much evidence that they got the virus from school or passed it on to others?   With the increase in numbers throughout the state, I would expect an increase in numbers in kids/faculty that go to school as well.  

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😏

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2 minutes ago, Oblong said:

If they use them in a pandemic I'd be ok with it.  Hopefully pandemics are once in a lifetime situations.

Hopefully you're right on pandemics, hopefully politicians concede any additional powers gained during them too.

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

tenor.gif?itemid=12540386

Not trying to move the goal posts, just clarifying and even acknowledging I incorrectly used a word.  At this time, there has been evidence of parties/bars in college towns that have contributed to the spread of this virus.  There currently is no evidence that 2 kids at an elementary school near Grand Rapids were caused or spread to the 2 kids at Howell High School.   

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Damn, he got us. Can anyone here prove that elementary school kids in Grand Rapids spread it to high schoolers in Howell? 

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47 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Damn, he got us. Can anyone here prove that elementary school kids in Grand Rapids spread it to high schoolers in Howell? 

A kid in Grand Rapids gave it to his grandparents. Then the grandparents went and visited their other grandchildren in Howell. Very possible. But totally made up.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Oh?

that's a pretty good ratio considering how many schools there are.  one can expect a few kids and staff to get it, but it sounds like any outbreaks are being contained and dealt with.

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

that's a pretty good ratio considering how many schools there are.  one can expect a few kids and staff to get it, but it sounds like any outbreaks are being contained and dealt with.

It has gotten to where this just isn't rocket science anymore. It all goes back to masks. In settings where people wear them it is dramatically effective. Even with the 'big' kids; UM is tracking as many cases as they can to earth and the classroom just has not shown up as a significant vector.  It spreads where people are breathing on each other: residential settings where people are unmasked, and any place people gather to eat or drink together.

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On the RT live site tonight, not a single state in the union with an R(t) value below 1.0 by more than the margin of error.

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

On the RT live site tonight, not a single state in the union with an R(t) value below 1.0 by more than the margin of error.

Grim.

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