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Casimir

02/20/2020 7:00 EST Milwaukee Bucks vs Detroit Pistons

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NBA players are such whiney babies nowadays (the LeBron generation) especially the one the Pistons dealt away at the deadline. Good for Beilein to get away from that mess. He's better suited for college anyway.

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13 minutes ago, NYLion said:

NBA players are such whiney babies nowadays (the LeBron generation) especially the one the Pistons dealt away at the deadline. Good for Beilein to get away from that mess. He's better suited for college anyway.

Either that, or NBA players of this generation assert themselves as men and leverage their power as professionals. 

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12 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I dunno.  Andre had plenty of opportunity to complain here and never really seemed to do so.

And Andre didn't walk into a situation and speak up out of nowhere. This entire season was met with players revolting against and/or not being happy with Belein in that locker room.

The most likely situation is that Andre joined the team, and the guys on the team told him how bad it was. And one of those guys is likely Kevin Love, who Andre spoke with as soon as the trade happened. 

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Just goes to show that smart people can make dumb decisions.

Yup.  My wife did once.

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1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

I dunno.  Andre had plenty of opportunity to complain here and never really seemed to do so.

Too lazy to.

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1 hour ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Either that, or NBA players of this generation assert themselves as men and leverage their power as professionals. 

I'm not a fan of the way players handle non-ideal situations nowadays. It's either take their grievances to social media or demand a trade and handcuff the team in the process. Then you have guys like Durant who get all bent out of shape about every little bit of criticism.

I'm not one of those "boomer" guys (way too young to be a boomer anyway) but I just feel like players come off as much more entitled nowadays. The toxic social media atmosphere plays a part in this too I'm sure.

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29 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I'm not a fan of the way players handle non-ideal situations nowadays. It's either take their grievances to social media or demand a trade and handcuff the team in the process. Then you have guys like Durant who get all bent out of shape about every little bit of criticism.

I'm not one of those "boomer" guys (way too young to be a boomer anyway) but I just feel like players come off as much more entitled nowadays. The toxic social media atmosphere plays a part in this too I'm sure.

There is more invasion in players' personal lives than ever before, greater expectations in terms of public engagement and more obsession over their person and professional lives than ever before.

At the same time, players are recognizing more than ever that they hold incredible power in the league and that their short careers could vanish in an instant. It stands to reason they will leverage all of it to do what is best for them.

That isn't to justify bad behavior (I criticized Iggy for what he did in Memphis), but it is to say that a guy leaving in free agency to go to a team that he wants to be on shouldn't be met with "OMG HE IS SOFT AND A LOSER AND ALL YOUNG PLAYERS ARE WHINY!" like many espouse. 

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24 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

There is more invasion in players' personal lives than ever before, greater expectations in terms of public engagement and more obsession over their person and professional lives than ever before.

At the same time, players are recognizing more than ever that they hold incredible power in the league and that their short careers could vanish in an instant. It stands to reason they will leverage all of it to do what is best for them.

That isn't to justify bad behavior (I criticized Iggy for what he did in Memphis), but it is to say that a guy leaving in free agency to go to a team that he wants to be on shouldn't be met with "OMG HE IS SOFT AND A LOSER AND ALL YOUNG PLAYERS ARE WHINY!" like many espouse. 

Leaving in free agency is different than demanding a trade to only their desired location when they're under contract, a contract they chose to sign. It's like the moment a hint of adversity hits, players vouch for the easy way out and/or demand to play with their buddies rather than work hard to make the best of their situation until they hit free agency and have the choice to sign wherever they want.

Ultimately, players are free to do whatever they want with their careers, I just feel like they use their leverage as great players to strong arm the team to do exactly what they want or else but I guess that goes both ways with teams cutting players without warning or trading them randomly etc. I also think players are getting soft with all this "load management" stuff depriving fans who already paid big money to watch these players of seeing them in those games.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Leaving in free agency is different than demanding a trade to only their desired location when they're under contract, a contract they chose to sign. It's like the moment a hint of adversity hits, players vouch for the easy way out and/or demand to play with their buddies rather than work hard to make the best of their situation until they hit free agency and have the choice to sign wherever they want.

Ultimately, players are free to do whatever they want with their careers, I just feel like they use their leverage as great players to strong arm the team to do exactly what they want or else but I guess that goes both ways with teams cutting players without warning or trading them randomly etc. I also think players are getting soft with all this "load management" stuff depriving fans who already paid big money to watch these players of seeing them in those games.

 

 

Load management isn't about players being soft - it is about organizations realizing that they would be smart to protect their greatest assets for their long-term success. 

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The vast majority of players play out their contract without demanding a trade.

Also, players demanding a trade is not a recent innovation.

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19 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Load management isn't about players being soft - it is about organizations realizing that they would be smart to protect their greatest assets for their long-term success. 

The NBA is the only sport where this happens regularly and it never happened previously. Has something changed in the NBA player body composition in the last 10 years or so that needs to be protected from playing a full 82 games?

For instance, hockey is a more physically demanding (dangerous) sport playing the same amount of games yet you'll never see an NHL player be sat if healthy unless they have everything clinched at the end of the season. In fact, you'd have to drag them off the ice kicking and screaming to sit them if they can play.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The vast majority of players play out their contract without demanding a trade.

Also, players demanding a trade is not a recent innovation.

It's not but it's more prominent than it has been in years past especially in the last few years.

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Is that true?  Not saying it isn't - just saying I haven't kept in my mind everyone who has demanded a trade to judge 2018-2020 to 2008-2010 or 1998-2000.

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And even if there are more instances of a rare occurrence, it probably would have a lot more to do with owners / league being more amenable than players as a group being weaker or easier to irritate

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Eh, I'm probably wrong about the trade demand thing now that I think about it. There were quite a few in the mid to late 90s with Webber, Shaq, Mourning, Marbury so I retract my previous statement.

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28 minutes ago, NYLion said:

The NBA is the only sport where this happens regularly and never happened previously. Has something changed in the NBA player body composition in the last 10 years or so that needs to be protected from playing a full 82 games? For instance, hockey is a more physically demanding (dangerous) sport playing the same amount of games yet you'll never see a player be sat if healthy unless they have everything clinched at the end of the season.

What has happened is teams are better informed on the benefits of rest on both the health, and efficacy, of players.

Hockey players are playing considerably less time in a game than an equivalent basketball player.  Hockey also rarely have back-to-backs and never play 4 times in 5 nights.

And there is a lot of contact in basketball underneath the basket.  Guys who take it to the rack are taking hits.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

What has happened is teams are being better informed on the benefits of rest on both the health and efficacy of players.

Hockey players are playing considerably less time in a game than an equivalent basketball player.  Hockey also rarely have back-to-backs and never plays 4 in 5 nights.

And there is a lot of contact in basketball underneath the basket.

 
And the NBA is far more successful than the NHL in terms of ratings, viewership and interest.

They protect the players from injury and make individual guys recognizable and relevant. Even with load management, people are more interested in regular season basketball over regular season hockey...and the playoffs aren't even close. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

What has happened is teams are being better informed on the benefits of rest on both the health and efficacy of players.

Hockey players are playing considerably less time in a game than an equivalent basketball player.  Hockey also rarely have back-to-backs and never plays 4 in 5 nights.

And there is a lot of contact in basketball underneath the basket.

All fair points., makes sense.

Agreeing makes for boring conversation. ?

One thing I'll note is that it's a rotten deal for fans who pay to see this player to miss out on seeing them when their load is being managed so from that standpoint, it's frustrating for the fans.

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19 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:
 
And the NBA is far more successful than the NHL in terms of ratings, viewership and interest.

They protect the players from injury and make individual guys recognizable and relevant. Even with load management, people are more interested in regular season basketball over regular season hockey...and the playoffs aren't even close. 

Hockey is regional.  You need to live in cold environment and/or be born into upper middle class (or wealthier) to play as a youth.  Ice is expensive.  Plus there is all the equipment.

The barriers to entry as a youth player are much, much less in basketball.

More youths playing basketball -> more basketball fans.

Not a perfect relationship, but I think that is a decent portion of it.

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Side note: regarding the youth players become fans as adults, something the Red Wings as an organization have done over the past 10 years (that I am aware of - possibly longer) is donate a lot of gear and time to youth players, but focusing that effort to non-white youth players and female players.

It's an admirable thing to do, but make no mistake, their underlying motivation is to grow their fan base long term, and that means expanding the core fan base beyond white males.

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3 hours ago, Deleterious said:

 

Nothing says mature quite like this.  poor belein.

this is not a generational thing.  player revolts have been going on forever.  ask magic johnson.

to paraphrase the great chuck daly, its great that these guys let me coach them.  the players have the control and have had the control for a long time.  only guys with supreme resumes can come in and push players around.  even then, guys like phil jackson wouldnt push as much as convince.  

the players are conglomerates and brands all their own.  they use their leverage and exercise it.  nothing wrong with that.

doing what the cavs players are accused above of doing is not exercising leverage, but merely being petty and immature.  

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

What has happened is teams are better informed on the benefits of rest on both the health, and efficacy, of players.

Hockey players are playing considerably less time in a game than an equivalent basketball player.  Hockey also rarely have back-to-backs and never play 4 times in 5 nights.

And there is a lot of contact in basketball underneath the basket.  Guys who take it to the rack are taking hits.

Right - 18 minutes for your average hockey forward vs 38 min for an NBA starter. But two other additional points. Basketball players are huge people, the basic impact wear and tear on their bodies from running up and down a court is great, and ironically, despite hockey being a 'contact' sport,  the  skating part is much lower impact on feet/knees/back etc  than running up and down a hard court.

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