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Report: Iran shot down Ukraine plane

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1 hour ago, Charles Liston said:

The plane was not shot down by the government of Iran.  Read the article in The Guardian.  As for the coverup, who cares?  Their government has almost as many liars as the government of the United States.

 

I just read the article, it said they were Revolutionary Guard missiles.  Aren't they part of the government of Iran?

Quote

Behind the scenes, western governments were carefully picking over the satellite record. It confirmed that the Revolutionary Guards’ Parandak garrison had used a short-range Tor-M1 missile system to bring down the plane. Seemingly, its nervous operators had confused it with a US military jet. Or a reconnaissance drone.

 

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45 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

Yes it was absolutely the guards, who made a mistake, as opposed to an order from senior levels of government.

Ok I follow what you're saying.

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Iran has now admitted that the events occurred exactly the way that they obviously did, right from the start - that someone made a mistake and that rockets were fired at a civilian airliner.  Case closed.  Investigate if you want to, but 100% of the facts were known more than a day ago and Iran has now confirmed them.

As for the circumstances to explain why the rocket was fired at that exact moment, we'll never know.  A scared kid in the back of a pickup truck with a shoulder-mounted SAM?  I don't think so.  I think it's more likely that some recognition systems, on high alert, somehow misinterpreted the image or signals received from the passenger aircraft and mistook it for an enemy threat.

The reason for the tragedy?  That's been obvious since the instant that it occurred.  It was the assassination of Soleimani.  The assassination of Soleimani, ordered by F***-Face, is the direct cause of the deaths of 176 innocent people.  Those people are dead because of the outcome of your 2016 presidential elections.  It was inevitable, people would actually die because you elected Trump.  

 

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The US tried and failed to take out another Iranian leader, Abdul Reza Shahlai. No Trumper has ever mentioned him before, but if he was killed, he would suddenly be another Bin Laden. 

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14 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

Iran has now admitted that the events occurred exactly the way that they obviously did, right from the start - that someone made a mistake and that rockets were fired at a civilian airliner.  Case closed.  Investigate if you want to, but 100% of the facts were known more than a day ago and Iran has now confirmed them.

As for the circumstances to explain why the rocket was fired at that exact moment, we'll never know.  A scared kid in the back of a pickup truck with a shoulder-mounted SAM?  I don't think so.  I think it's more likely that some recognition systems, on high alert, somehow misinterpreted the image or signals received from the passenger aircraft and mistook it for an enemy threat.

The reason for the tragedy?  That's been obvious since the instant that it occurred.  It was the assassination of Soleimani.  The assassination of Soleimani, ordered by F***-Face, is the direct cause of the deaths of 176 innocent people.  Those people are dead because of the outcome of your 2016 presidential elections.  It was inevitable, people would actually die because you elected Trump.  

 

"Direct" cause?  Not even close.  There were plenty of intervening events and causes.  Iran didn't have to fire missiles at Americans in response to our killing of their terrorist honcho in Iraq.  And they certainly didn't have to shoot down an airliner that had just taken off from their own freaking airport.

Also, it is far from "absolutely" clear that the downing of the passenger plane was a "mistake" by a nervous guy as opposed to something ordered by the regime.  The people who run what passes for a government in Iran are not exactly a trustworthy  source of information, and faced with the clear evidence that the plane was shot out of the sky with a missile and the collapse of their clumsy cover-up attempt, it is not difficult to be skeptical of their new story that a military man acting on his own ordered the launch.  It may have been the mistake that they now "admit," but there is no good reason to just blindly accept the government 's new story.  Because, Jake, it's Irantown.

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2 hours ago, six-hopper said:

 

Also, it is far from "absolutely" clear that the downing of the passenger plane was a "mistake" by a nervous guy as opposed to something ordered by the regime.

I think this is not even  remotely likely.

OTOH, there are forces deep in Iranian society that would love nothing more than to see the Revolutionary Guards taken down a few pegs and this disastrous  misstep by them and the embarrassment it brings to the regime is an opening for the Guard's opponents and anyone else that opposes the power of the Iranian theocracy. The question is whether the US in particular is currently capable of playing a subtle enough game to take any advantage. So far, everything Trump has done has only strengthened the hand of our hard line opponents in Iran. He has, by pretty much blind (and tragic) luck, given himself and the US an opening, if he has any clue how to take advantage.

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On Saturday, January 11, 2020 at 5:15 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

I think this is not even  remotely likely.

OTOH, there are forces deep in Iranian society that would love nothing more than to see the Revolutionary Guards taken down a few pegs and this disastrous  misstep by them and the embarrassment it brings to the regime is an opening for the Guard's opponents and anyone else that opposes the power of the Iranian theocracy. The question is whether the US in particular is currently capable of playing a subtle enough game to take any advantage. So far, everything Trump has done has only strengthened the hand of our hard line opponents in Iran. He has, by pretty much blind (and tragic) luck, given himself and the US an opening, if he has any clue how to take advantage.

So time to chase the Iranian leaders into spider holes, then unceremoniously drag them out to be hanged?

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12 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

So time to chase the Iranian leaders into spider holes, then unceremoniously drag them out to be hanged?

The Saudi Arabian and Russian leaders too?  

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

The Saudi Arabian and Russian leaders too?  

Six-hopper volunteers to start this in North Korea. First on the list is Kim Jong Un.

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Iran fires live bullets and tear gas at protesters in Tehran.  https://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/video-iran-police-shoot-at-those-protesting-plane-shootdown-1.614520?fbclid=IwAR20ju3bOlG9KSsHEdNRJJ5k8Jndu09Mm-vUguK5icxZf832i50ZV8BQlNU

But this bit I wonder about,

Quote

...said Hadi Ghaemi, the executive director of the New York-based Center for Human Rights in Iran. “Iranians shouldn’t have to risk their lives to exercise their constitutional right to peaceful assembly.”

Does Iran have a constitution that gives the right for peaceful assembly, ie protest?

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12 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

Six-hopper volunteers to start this in North Korea. First on the list is Kim Jong Un.

I am all for it if Six Hopper agrees to fight as a front lines soldier.  

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I'm not.  All fighting and death is going to lead to is more fighting and death.

I'm not either.  Just taking a shot at Six's false bravado.  

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On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 7:32 PM, tiger337 said:

The Saudi Arabian and Russian leaders too?  

Okay with me.

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25 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

Okay with me.

You're volunteering for this mission, right?

Or just another fraud...?

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On 1/13/2020 at 11:01 PM, 84 Lives!!! said:

You're volunteering for this mission, right?

Or just another fraud...?

Why else would I have so many guns?

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1 hour ago, six-hopper said:

Why else would I have so many guns?

You'll need more than guns on this mission.  

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6 hours ago, six-hopper said:

Why else would I have so many guns?

It's not about guns.

It's about balls.

And so far, the only thing I see from you is blow hard.

Just like Trump. A fraud.

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Yeah as really the plane should never had been in Iran in the first place however! Not knowing possibly they were in the middle of a heated war. Or would be.

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This is an interesting read:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-early-warning/hours-of-forewarning-saved-u-s-iraqi-lives-from-irans-missile-attack-idUSKBN1ZC218

It appears the Iranians wanted to make sure they didn't kill anyone in their missile strike.

Quote

By midnight, not a single fighter jet or helicopter remained out in the open, said one of the sources, an intelligence officer. Another Iraqi intelligence source said U.S. troops even seemed to know the timing of the attack, saying they seemed “totally aware” the base would be attacked “after midnight.”

When the missiles finally landed at about 1:30 a.m., they struck “empty bunkers that had been evacuated hours before,” the intelligence source said. No one was injured or killed.

Such accounts add to the evidence that the Iranian attack was among the worst kept secrets in modern warfare – but the reasons why remain mysterious after days of conflicting statements from officials in Iran, Iraq and the United States.

After the missiles landed, several major U.S. media outlets quoted U.S. officials saying the attack had been little more than a warning shot, allowing Iran to satisfy calls for revenge at home - after the U.S. air strike on Jan. 3 that killed an Iranian general - without much risk of provoking further U.S. attacks. Others, citing U.S. and Arab sources, reported that Iran warned Iraq before the attacks and that Iraq had passed that information to the United States.

 

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