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2020 Offseason (all the way up to the Draft)

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4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Martha is what 92? Does she care? She probably won't be around.

Also, don't these big pay increases kick in after the new CBA? Chances are the salary cap will increase by then. 

She is still alive at 94 because she cares. 

And Sheila Hamp Ford cares. 

This is a family business. Their name is on it. They care.

How that translates into accountability is the question. Has Quinn been put on a shorter leash in terms of the size or length of free agent contracts he can give out? 

Now’s the time you wish you had someone like Bill Polian in the house instead of Rod Wood. 

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As far as draft positioning goes, having MIA, LAC, and Charlotte at 5, 6, & 7 — three QB needy teams with only two worthy QBs on the board to choose from — could make draft night fun for the Lions. 

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6 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

As far as draft positioning goes, having MIA, LAC, and Charlotte at 5, 6, & 7 — three QB needy teams with only two worthy QBs on the board to choose from — could make draft night fun for the Lions. 

Means a lot less with Giants at 4.  Teams can probably call their bluffs, but I don't see someone moving up to get Tua, especially with the injury history.  They'll want to get him at a reduced rate.

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If I'm the Lions, I would be choosing between Derrick Brown of Auburn, and Okudah.  Preference is Brown.

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7 hours ago, NYLion said:

Do you think places like Green Bay, Pittsburgh and that trash hole Baltimore are destination cities? No, those teams win. That's what draws free agents in, winning and money.

Point taken, but I don’t think it’s always that black and white. FAs have signed for other reasons besides money. Playing in a big market, a chance at a championship, the opportunity to play for a particular coach, or even a rival team (like Farve). And I wouldn’t completely write off nice weather areas or cities with lots to offer. Players are people too, many with wives and families.

My point was, since you can throw out winning with the Lions (and pretty much everything else), that leaves only money. Which means in a bidding war with another team, to attract anyone the Lions have no other card to play. Except to overpay above market

 

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7 hours ago, NYLion said:

The Detroit suburbs are some of the most affluent areas in the country, that's where the players live.

Some of the most affluent areas in the country? According to what list? That's either well-designed satire on your part (nicely done – I almost took it seriously). Or a pure cotton candy view of Detroit suburbs.

Unless you meant to say most affluent in Michigan?

 

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7 hours ago, number20 said:

Some of the most affluent areas in the country? According to what list? That's either well-designed satire on your part (nicely done – I almost took it seriously). Or a pure cotton candy view of Detroit suburbs.

Unless you meant to say most affluent in Michigan?

 

Oakland County is the 7th most affluent county in the country by median household income per the 2010 census.

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8 hours ago, Jason_R said:

She is still alive at 94 because she cares. 

And Sheila Hamp Ford cares. 

This is a family business. Their name is on it. They care.

How that translates into accountability is the question. Has Quinn been put on a shorter leash in terms of the size or length of free agent contracts he can give out? 

Now’s the time you wish you had someone like Bill Polian in the house instead of Rod Wood. 

Mike Illitch signed Prince Fielder to a 9 year contract knowing the back half would be a disaster. When questioned on it, he basically said he won't be around to see the end of it. The point was what Martha thought about back-loading contracts and not the quality of the team. There's a chance she won't be around to see the cap **** if it comes to pass.

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4 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

You realize they are not the same person, right?

Yes. I used Mike Illitch as an example since the Tigers were going to remain in the family after he was gone. Martha may not care about the cap situation in a few years to win now. Let the children worry about the cap situation.

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8 hours ago, number20 said:

Point taken, but I don’t think it’s always that black and white. FAs have signed for other reasons besides money. Playing in a big market, a chance at a championship, the opportunity to play for a particular coach, or even a rival team (like Farve). And I wouldn’t completely write off nice weather areas or cities with lots to offer. Players are people too, many with wives and families.

My point was, since you can throw out winning with the Lions (and pretty much everything else), that leaves only money. Which means in a bidding war with another team, to attract anyone the Lions have no other card to play. Except to overpay above market

 

The top free agents last year signed in the following places...

New York (Bell): Cold weather city, lots to offer though but Bell wanted to go to the highest bidder and made that quite clear.

Baltimore (Thomas): Cold weather city, not much to offer outside of contending football team.

Detroit (Flowers): Cold weather city, nothing to offer as far as anything is concerned. Money decision most likely and I guess Patricia which I find hard to believe.

Foles signed where he got the best opportunity and who was going to offer more than that what Jacksonville offered.

Mosley, Smith, Mathieu. All cold weather cities with New York being the only one that offers a lot of off the field perks.

The bottom line is that a majority of these decisions are money driven and/or contender driven. I can't see Baltimore, Green Bay, Detroit and Kansas City as top lifestyle choices for these guys. Of course the wife and kids have a say but usually these guys go for the green especially in the NFL where careers are so short and most guys only have one shot at a big free agent contract.

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42 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Yes. I used Mike Illitch as an example since the Tigers were going to remain in the family after he was gone. Martha may not care about the cap situation in a few years to win now. Let the children worry about the cap situation.

I was not talking about the cap situation. But please go on telling me what Martha thinks. 

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59 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Oakland County is the 7th most affluent county in the country by median household income per the 2010 census.

in a 2016 survey it wasnt in the top 25.

oakland county is wealthy, but not like it used to be and certainly not compared to the new money in the dc suburbs, nyc, and silicon valley.

to your point, there is still money in the detroit metro area and oakland county has some nice suburbs.

to his point, every city has nice suburbs and they have them without being connected to detroit and its horrible weather.

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

in a 2016 survey it wasnt in the top 25.

oakland county is wealthy, but not like it used to be and certainly not compared to the new money in the dc suburbs, nyc, and silicon valley.

to your point, there is still money in the detroit metro area and oakland county has some nice suburbs.

to his point, every city has nice suburbs and they have them without being connected to detroit and its horrible weather.

You really think the city plays a big factor in where players decide to sign? Lots of NFL cities have horrible weather by the way.

My general point in replying to Number20 is I don't think Downtown Detroit is what turns players off to this market.

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19 minutes ago, Buddha said:

in a 2016 survey it wasnt in the top 25.

oakland county is wealthy, but not like it used to be and certainly not compared to the new money in the dc suburbs, nyc, and silicon valley.

to your point, there is still money in the detroit metro area and oakland county has some nice suburbs.

to his point, every city has nice suburbs and they have them without being connected to detroit and its horrible weather.

I go by census numbers. Oakland County also covers a lot of area. It includes poor areas like Pontiac and the southern part of the county like Hazel Park that brings down the overall income. It was mentioned affluent "areas". The Bloomfield area is probably one of the most affluent in the country. There's also the farther flung areas with private lakes and resort like houses. There's also the Grosse Pointes but they are dragged by being surrounded by the east side of Detroit.

In any event, Detroit hasn't had issues attracting free agents. The Tigers were able to sign free agents. There was a time when players took less to sign with the Red Wings. Quinn has been able to sign the players he wanted who had competition from other teams. Besides, the NFL season is 17 weeks. Account for training camp and possible playoffs and it's 6 months at most. Aaron Rodgers just bought a $28 million Malibu estate. These players don't live year round here. I believe Stafford spends the offseason in Georgia.

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26 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I was not talking about the cap situation. But please go on telling me what Martha thinks. 

I was so I'm not sure what your issue is. I said she doesn't care about the cap issue. You said she does. Now you're not talking about the cap situation.

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45 minutes ago, NYLion said:

You really think the city plays a big factor in where players decide to sign? Lots of NFL cities have horrible weather by the way.

My general point in replying to Number20 is I don't think Downtown Detroit is what turns players off to this market.

no.  i think players move almost exclusively for money.

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23 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I go by census numbers. Oakland County also covers a lot of area. It includes poor areas like Pontiac and the southern part of the county like Hazel Park that brings down the overall income. It was mentioned affluent "areas". The Bloomfield area is probably one of the most affluent in the country. There's also the farther flung areas with private lakes and resort like houses. There's also the Grosse Pointes but they are dragged by being surrounded by the east side of Detroit.

In any event, Detroit hasn't had issues attracting free agents. The Tigers were able to sign free agents. There was a time when players took less to sign with the Red Wings. Quinn has been able to sign the players he wanted who had competition from other teams. Besides, the NFL season is 17 weeks. Account for training camp and possible playoffs and it's 6 months at most. Aaron Rodgers just bought a $28 million Malibu estate. These players don't live year round here. I believe Stafford spends the offseason in Georgia.

i agree with you that money is the driving factor for free agents and detroit's poor reputation doesnt mean a whole lot.  detroit teams lack of winning has more to do with their inability to sign free agents recently than anything else.

that said, its going to differ for each player.  like lebron.  he was going to go to LA no matter what.  kawhi too.  if weather is a concern or taxes, then detroit is probably out.

i live in chicago which is a much nicer city than detroit and they dont get a ton of free agents either.  how many times have the knicks been turned down? 

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and the 2016 numbers were a survey conducted by the census bureau.  i dont oakland county is nearly as wealthy compared to other counties as it used to be when the big three were more prevalent.

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13 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i agree with you that money is the driving factor for free agents and detroit's poor reputation doesnt mean a whole lot.  detroit teams lack of winning has more to do with their inability to sign free agents recently than anything else.

that said, its going to differ for each player.  like lebron.  he was going to go to LA no matter what.  kawhi too.  if weather is a concern or taxes, then detroit is probably out.

i live in chicago which is a much nicer city than detroit and they dont get a ton of free agents either.  how many times have the knicks been turned down? 

There was a time when nobody wanted to play for the Clippers and were the joke of the league. The Knicks are dysfunctional but the Nets had no issues attracting marquee free agents. I feel the NBA is different. Status and location is more important.

12 minutes ago, Buddha said:

and the 2016 numbers were a survey conducted by the census bureau.  i dont oakland county is nearly as wealthy compared to other counties as it used to be when the big three were more prevalent.

Areas like Pontiac have continued to decline. The working class areas like Hazel Park declined. Even middle class areas like Southfield declined. Professional athletes were never going to live there anyways. The Bloomfield area is still among the most affluent in the country.

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i guess it depends on how far you want to go to define "most affluent in the country."  its certainly one of the richest in michigan and the midwest.

there's just not nearly as much money in detroit as there used to be.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i guess it depends on how far you want to go to define "most affluent in the country."  its certainly one of the richest in michigan and the midwest.

there's just not nearly as much money in detroit as there used to be.

As of the 2010 census, Bloomfield Hills had the third highest median income in the country. The top 1% haven't declined in this country so I would imagine Bloomfield is still among the highest earning cities in the country. What has declined is the poor and working class which would be Pontiac and some of the inner ring suburbs.

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

As of the 2010 census, Bloomfield Hills had the third highest median income in the country. The top 1% haven't declined in this country so I would imagine Bloomfield is still among the highest earning cities in the country. What has declined is the poor and working class which would be Pontiac and some of the inner ring suburbs.

i'll bet you bloomfield hills isnt in the top 10 anymore.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

i'll bet you bloomfield hills isnt in the top 10 anymore.

I'll bet it hasn't declined. Most of the top 10 will be in DC or LA so that's two markets out of about 30. I'm also not sure many athletes live in Bloomfield anyways. Don't most live in Birmingham? Cabrera lives in Grosse Pointe. Plenty of nice areas to live in for athletes.

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'll bet it hasn't declined. Most of the top 10 will be in DC or LA so that's two markets out of about 30. I'm also not sure many athletes live in Bloomfield anyways. Don't most live in Birmingham? Cabrera lives in Grosse Pointe. Plenty of nice areas to live in for athletes.

most of the top 20 will be suburbs of the major cities, especially DC, san fran, LA, NYC, and chicago.  add in the extreme wealth in seattle and dallas, and now austin.  i can name you 3 or 4 suburbs in chicago alone with more money.  and chicago has been passed by dc and san fran recently and was never close to nyc or LA.

i guarantee you its not in the top 10.  i'd be surprised if it were in the top 20.

i get it.  its a nice rich town.  so is grosse pointe.  but the money that has flowed into the financial and tech capitals dwarfs the money in detroit.  it really does.

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