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Motor City Sonics

2020 Offseason (all the way up to the Draft)

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On 12/29/2019 at 8:17 AM, Motor City Sonics said:

I love playing the First-Pick game.................You go online and you are the GM of the team and you get to draft for a team with real prospects - and you can make trades.   It is VERY addictive. 

I just made a few trades and picked up some extra picks and this is what I got

Round 1 (5)  -  Isiah Simmons, LB, Clemson

Round 1 (21) - Jeff Okudah, CB, Ohio State

Round 2 (3) - Calvin Throckmorton, OT, Oregon

Round 3 (24) - Kenneth Murray, LB, Oklahoma

Round 3 (3) - JR Reed,  SS, Georgia

Round 3 (24) - Ben Bredeson, OG, Michigan

After that who cares -  If the Lions had a draft like that in the first 3 rounds I would issue Bob Quinn a public apology.  

no way okudah is there at 21.

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31 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

T-Minus 1 hour until the annual Bob Quinn press conference.  I’ll be interesting how much he owns of what’s transpired since the last time he spoke in public.  He will certainly be asked to compound upon his famous 9-7 comment and I wonder if he will dance or take it head on.    
 

 

he said that team had better talent than 9-7 so he fired caldwell.  does that mean this team doesnt have as good talent as that team?  and if it doesnt, how does quinn justify his job?  and if it does, how does he justify patricia's?

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17 hours ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

Slay is not getting a 1st rounder in return. 
 

I don’t get the Quinntricias plan. It’s pretty much hope a healthy Stafford can cover your decencies and be healthy. 
 

People keep talking about all this cap space but the Lions rank in the middle. Harrison said he might retire that would add some space. Marvin Jones can be cut, well he should be cut as Lions can save 9 million doing so. Other teams have just as much space, unless your the Vikings. Players know the regime is on the hot seat because the owner said so, given the losing history Lions are probably going to have to overbid.

Quinns record has been I’d say averagish with free agency. So if he over pays and gets a starter or two, there still too many holes to be filled in the draft. 
 

Quinn has put the Lions in a tough spot by drafting guys just because they fit the system. Tavi is a two down player, you don’t take a two down player that high in the second. Tabor was slow, everyone knows he was slow. The defensive system you knew you were bringing in calls for a lot of man Coverage. The Lions have no pass rush, slow corners in man coverage and no pass rush is a terrible recipe. He traded up for a RB who literally had never stayed healthy. Davis was known to lack instinct that was the knock in him in college, but he went with him anyway.
 

It’s been four years under Quinn. Everyone has been turned over except Stafford and Muhlbach. There is no more excuses. Under what scenario do these holes get filled? I just don’t get it, if the Lions are going to fire Quinntricia if they don’t make the playoffs or come close next year they should do it now. Because that isn’t happening next year.

i think quinn put the lions in a hole by drafting for two years for a system he didnt believe in and then shifting systems in year 3 when he finally had the coach he wanted, thus wasting two more of stafford's prime years.

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if the lions cut wagner, dont extend slay, and let glasgow walk, that's half their oline and their #1 corner they have to replace.  also, harrison is talking about retiring which will accelerate his cap hit while leaving them with a gaping hole at dt (ashawn being a free agent).  

if they dont cut slay or trade him, they'll need to extend him and that will cut into their cap for next year.  and all those contracts they handed out last year?  all backloaded so they took really small cap hits in 2019, but that money will come on board soon.  maybe not in 2020, but shortly thereafter.

i'm not sure the lions will be major players in free agency unless they let slay go and they need to spend huge money on a cornerback.

We'd be better off with an expansion team..............we really would.  

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

he said that team had better talent than 9-7 so he fired caldwell.  does that mean this team doesnt have as good talent as that team?  and if it doesnt, how does quinn justify his job?  and if it does, how does he justify patricia's?

It will be interesting to me watching how it shakes out with Quinn. I usually don't have really strong judgments about front office performances because it's so hard to know what is really going on but right now I just have no idea why Quinn still has his job. I will see if I have to eat crow in a couple of years since he is clearly staying around.

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It will be interesting to me watching how it shakes out with Quinn. I usually don't have really strong judgments about front office performances because it's so hard to know what is really going on but right now I just have no idea why Quinn still has his job. I will see if I have to eat crow in a couple of years since he is clearly staying around.

they could luck into 12-4 like the bears did last year.  say they draft chase young and he turns out to be khalil mack 2.0, extend slay, harrison doesnt retire, oruwariye develops into a #2 corner, tavai improves, they pick up a dt and a covet linebacker...

....stafford stays healthy and for the first time in a long time they get some turnover luck.  

its the nfl.  anyone can luck into 12 wins.  this packers team is completely mediocre and its 13-3.

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9 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i'm not sure the lions will be major players in free agency unless they let slay go and they need to spend huge money on a cornerback.

They're also hamstrung by being the Lions. They'll have no choice but to overpay FAs to play for such a hopeless franchise. Other than money, what would attract someone to play for Detroit? Sh** weather and high taxes? Endless blocks of abandoned buildings and urban decay? Certainly not a chance at a ring

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Just now, number20 said:

They're also hamstrung by being the Lions. They'll have no choice but to overpay FAs to play for such a hopeless franchise. Other than money, what would attract someone to play for Detroit? Sh** weather and high taxes? Endless blocks of abandoned buildings and urban decay? Certainly not a chance at a ring

$$$$$$  the same reason almost all free agents choose a team.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

$$$$$$  the same reason almost all free agents choose a team.

Like the way you threw in 'almost' ?

First person to come to mind was Suh. He wanted a payday but I don't think he would've stayed even if the Lions matched

 

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So what do the Lions do with Glasgow? Their franchise QB is healing from a busted up back, his OL never becomes a strength because it can’t build any continuity, and Glasgow has been pretty dependable if nothing else. But do you overpay for a guard?

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27 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

We'd be better off with an expansion team..............we really would.  

Yeah but Martha, et al.; will never sell, never move. No matter how bad this team is, it still generates money

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47 minutes ago, Buddha said:

its the nfl.  anyone can luck into 12 wins.

especially when you have the Det and Chicago managements in your division to give you a head start with 4.

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35 minutes ago, number20 said:

Like the way you threw in 'almost' ?

First person to come to mind was Suh. He wanted a payday but I don't think he would've stayed even if the Lions matched

 

i believe that had as much to do with taxes as the lions.  florida's lack of state income tax greatly increases athlete's take home pay.  especially over michigan.  i think.

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28 minutes ago, number20 said:

So what do the Lions do with Glasgow? Their franchise QB is healing from a busted up back, his OL never becomes a strength because it can’t build any continuity, and Glasgow has been pretty dependable if nothing else. But do you overpay for a guard?

Quinn has boxed this team into a corner with the moves he has made. I think you have to sign Glasgow because you are already likely letting Wagner and potentially Decker walk next season. You can't go into one off season and replace 3 starters on the offensive line. I think you make Wagner the odd man out by releasing him and then bringing back Decker on the right side and Glasgow at guard.

Although, it probably helps to have a generational Tight End prospect lined up tight on the line for blocking purposes. So that should alleviate some concerns.

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55 minutes ago, number20 said:

They're also hamstrung by being the Lions. They'll have no choice but to overpay FAs to play for such a hopeless franchise. Other than money, what would attract someone to play for Detroit? Sh** weather and high taxes? Endless blocks of abandoned buildings and urban decay? Certainly not a chance at a ring

Downtown has very little to do with where free agents decide to sign. The Detroit suburbs are some of the most affluent areas in the country, that's where the players live.

Do you think places like Green Bay, Pittsburgh and that trash hole Baltimore are destination cities? No, those teams win. That's what draws free agents in, winning and money.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

if the lions cut wagner, dont extend slay, and let glasgow walk, that's half their oline and their #1 corner they have to replace.  also, harrison is talking about retiring which will accelerate his cap hit while leaving them with a gaping hole at dt (ashawn being a free agent).  

if they dont cut slay or trade him, they'll need to extend him and that will cut into their cap for next year.  and all those contracts they handed out last year?  all backloaded so they took really small cap hits in 2019, but that money will come on board soon.  maybe not in 2020, but shortly thereafter.

i'm not sure the lions will be major players in free agency unless they let slay go and they need to spend huge money on a cornerback.

Replacements for Wagner, Glasgow, Harrison and extending Slay will be nowhere near $50M.  This would be an issue if they were somewhere in the $15-$20M range.  FWIW,  Slay is at $12M now and the top corner in the league is at $15M.  So it’s not a massive difference to pay him what he wants.  If you cut or trade Slay,  then you free up another $13M to go get his replacement.  Also, Wagner’s saved money is included in the $50M since it’s assumed he’ll be cut.  

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Just now, Hongbit said:

Replacements for Wagner, Glasgow, Harrison and extending Slay will be nowhere near $50M.  This would be an issue if they were somewhere in the $15-$20M range.  FWIW,  Slay is at $12M now and the top corner in the league is at $15M.  So it’s not a massive difference to pay him what he wants. 

plus a signing bonus for slay, plus decker's raise if you keep him, plus two other offensive linemen plus potentially your entire starting defensive tackle rotation.  amd thats before you think about upgrading your terrible linebackers or signing an actual backup qb.

look, if they do it like they did last year they can pay any player they want because they just kick the entire can down the road a few years.  i think we learned that's not the best way to do business.

and plenty of other teams have the same cap decisions that detroit has and theyve got more space to begin with.  im not sure why you think detroit is the only team with cap space that has no decisions on good players to sign.

i expect quinn to be aggressive and mortgage the future of the team if he has to, because he knows he has to win next year or he's fired.  which is another one of the downsides to keeping him and patricia around with a win now ultimatum.

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9 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i expect quinn to be aggressive and mortgage the future of the team if he has to, because he knows he has to win next year or he's fired.  which is another one of the downsides to keeping him and patricia around with a win now ultimatum.

I would be fascinated to know how Mrs. Ford, her daughter, and Rod Wood have thought about this. 

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Suh never wanted to play here.  He wanted to play in a glamour market............Went to Miami, with no state taxes, then went to LA and now he's in warm and tax-free Tampa...........and the saddest and most frustrating part of it is that EVERYONE,  except the Lions, knew it.  

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19 minutes ago, Buddha said:

plus a signing bonus for slay, plus decker's raise if you keep him, plus two other offensive linemen plus potentially your entire starting defensive tackle rotation.  amd thats before you think about upgrading your terrible linebackers or signing an actual backup qb.

look, if they do it like they did last year they can pay any player they want because they just kick the entire can down the road a few years.  i think we learned that's not the best way to do business.

and plenty of other teams have the same cap decisions that detroit has and theyve got more space to begin with.  im not sure why you think detroit is the only team with cap space that has no decisions on good players to sign.

i expect quinn to be aggressive and mortgage the future of the team if he has to, because he knows he has to win next year or he's fired.  which is another one of the downsides to keeping him and patricia around with a win now ultimatum.

Signing bonus are spread out over the life of the contract against the cap. Slay bonus is not a real issue for next year   

Deckers contract goes up to $10m in 2020 and that’s already figured in the $50m. They can let him play it out or cut him and have $10m to spend on a replacement.  

Guards aren’t that much money and you can probably get 3 decent ones for $10M total. 

They have plenty of money to address these needs and many more for next season.   

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18 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Signing bonus are spread out over the life of the contract against the cap. Slay bonus is not a real issue for next year   

Deckers contract goes up to $10m in 2020 and that’s already figured in the $50m. They can let him play it out or cut him and have $10m to spend on a replacement.  

Guards aren’t that much money and you can probably get 3 decent ones for $10M total. 

They have plenty of money to address these needs and many more for next season.   

tj lang alone cost $8 million per.  rick wagner cost $9.5 per.

$50 million in salary cap space puts the lions in the middle of the league, and although you seem to think that no one else in the league will have more space after they cut players, i can assure you they will.  the lions are not going to be among the top available teams in regards to space.

like i said, they can kick the can down the road again and splurge like last year, or they will be shopping for one top name and a bunch of kenny wiggins's.

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2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

I would be fascinated to know how Mrs. Ford, her daughter, and Rod Wood have thought about this. 

Martha is what 92? Does she care? She probably won't be around.

Also, don't these big pay increases kick in after the new CBA? Chances are the salary cap will increase by then. 

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Martha is what 92? Does she care? She probably won't be around.

Also, don't these big pay increases kick in after the new CBA? Chances are the salary cap will increase by then. 

She's actually 94...will be 95 next season.

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What a stupid press conference.  

But it's not like they're ever going to say anything meaningful during these things.  What can he say?  You took a 9-7 team and "rebuilt" it to a 3-12-1 team in only two short years.  Congrats.

"We couldn't finish."  No **** Bob.  And why is that?  Perhaps because your coach's defensive scheme was crap late in games?  Perhaps because the other team had more talent and when it decided to play hard your team couldn't keep up?  Perhaps because your entire team is really just Matt Stafford and bunch of very very very average at best players?

Look, Stafford going down killed this team.  We all know that.  But as has been said on here many times already, the defense cratered.  The defensive guru coach couldn't figure out how to keep the other team from scoring.  THAT'S the real takeaway from this season.  Patricia's defensive scheme didn't work OR the talent assembled by Quinn wasn't good enough.  

Or both.

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The Lions finished the year ranked 25th in total DVOA.

18th in offense.  Which isn't that bad considering they played so much of it without Stafford.  Kudos to Darrell Bevell.

28th in defense.  With a relatively healthy team for much of the year.  Continuing the trend of Patricia led defenses being average at best and mostly very bad.  From New England to Detroit.

As has been said, the only thing on Patricia's resume is that Belicheck gave him a job.  That's it. 

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