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2020 Offseason (all the way up to the Draft)

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

This is the correct answer. Also if you draft Jeudy this year, that's another weapon then for your new rookie QB.

There is no correct answer at this point.   You’re like a guy at a roulette table telling everyone on black 11 what a good bet they’ve made before the ball has even been dropped. 

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3 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

There is no correct answer at this point.   You’re like a guy at a roulette table telling everyone on black 11 what a good bet they’ve made before the ball has even been dropped. 

Yes, there is a correct answer. No one drafts a QB this high when they have a QB like Stafford under contract at his age. If Stafford is not right next year, then you draft your QB. It seems insane to draft an injured QB because you're worried about your currently injured QB. Tua may not even be ready by the start of training camp.

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I think Stafford is a great player and is probably the best thing this crap franchise has going for it.  
 

That being said , Stafford is 31 years old, coming off consecutive season ending back injuries, has a contract that takes up 16% of total cap space that allows a favorable exit after next season.    It seems insane to me that the team would treat Stafford as off limits to move even thinking about future options and wouldn’t be open to at least explore options for his replacement with the #3 pick.   


I am assuming Tua gets a clean bill and this was a freak injury.  His medicals may come back poor or inconclusive and make this a moot debate.    I am of the opinion that he’s not a normal early 1st round QB and is a special talent.    He reminds me of Steve Young in almost every way. 

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6 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I think Stafford is a great player and is probably the best thing this crap franchise has going for it.  
 

That being said , Stafford is 31 years old, coming off consecutive season ending back injuries, has a contract that takes up 16% of total cap space that allows a favorable exit after next season.    It seems insane to me that the team would treat Stafford as off limits to move even thinking about future options and wouldn’t be open to at least explore options for his replacement with the #3 pick.   


I am assuming Tua gets a clean bill and this was a freak injury.  His medicals may come back poor or inconclusive and make this a moot debate.    I am of the opinion that he’s not a normal early 1st round QB and is a special talent.    He reminds me of Steve Young in almost every way. 

Stafford's first two seasons he had season ending shoulder injuries only to come back and have one of the longest consecutive start streaks. Manning was 35 when he had spinal fusion surgery and came back healthy. Brady was 31 when he had his knee injury and is still going. It's the NFL and players get injured. You don't panic and draft a QB. What do you do with Stafford? If Stafford is now old, injury prone, and expensive, then what do you expect to get for him?

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they just redid stafford's contract in such a way that will make it more harmful salary cap wise to cut or trade him now.  theyre not going to do it.  and - as has been stated multiple times - they have been given a win or else ultimatum, you dont do that by getting rid of stafford and starting a rookie qb or, god help us, david blough again.

also, stafford didnt have a season ending back injury last year.  he played all 16 games.

stafford is really good!  i think we should keep him.  otoh, i really like stafford, so we should trade him away from this **** hole of a franchise and give the poor guy a chance to win a super bowl.

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10 minutes ago, Buddha said:

they just redid stafford's contract in such a way that will make it more harmful salary cap wise to cut or trade him now.  theyre not going to do it.  and - as has been stated multiple times - they have been given a win or else ultimatum, you dont do that by getting rid of stafford and starting a rookie qb or, god help us, david blough again.

also, stafford didnt have a season ending back injury last year.  he played all 16 games.

stafford is really good!  i think we should keep him.  otoh, i really like stafford, so we should trade him away from this **** hole of a franchise and give the poor guy a chance to win a super bowl.

People say he can't win the big games. It might be good to see how he does on an actual good team.

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8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

People say he can't win the big games. It might be good to see how he does on an actual good team.

That's what they said about Kirk Cousins until he ended up on a good team. 

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Stafford has been and still is really good. I think Tua will end up being better than him.   

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

This is the correct answer. Also if you draft Jeudy this year, that's another weapon then for your new rookie QB.

I'm all for an exciting offensive team and I really don't know the stats but, as a fan watching, it appeared our biggest reason for blowing so many games was our inability to get pressure on the opposing QB. As you pointed out in an earlier post, if the Lions were even 20th in defense, we would be a better team. I say go for a strong defensive draft, sign a couple veteran wide receivers. Get quality players on defense and we'll see if our defensive schemes really are the problem (I say it is).

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

That's what they said about Kirk Cousins until he ended up on a good team. 

I remember people calling Peyton a choke artist too. 

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

That's what they said about Kirk Cousins until he ended up on a good team. 

Ha! just what I was going to post this but from the other direction. Big games come against good teams, the Lions have not been a good team, thus the outcomes were expected.

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

That's what they said about Kirk Cousins until he ended up on a good team. 

Oh, I didn't say Matthew couldn't win the big games, I just pointed out his critics say that. Which is stupid, any QB needs a team around him, especially a defense, which he has no control over.

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2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I'm all for an exciting offensive team and I really don't know the stats but, as a fan watching, it appeared our biggest reason for blowing so many games was our inability to get pressure on the opposing QB. As you pointed out in an earlier post, if the Lions were even 20th in defense, we would be a better team. I say go for a strong defensive draft, sign a couple veteran wide receivers. Get quality players on defense and we'll see if our defensive schemes really are the problem (I say it is).

Our d certainly sucked but you can win with a bad D if your offense is good.  The Lions gave up on average 26.4 points a game this year, last year the Chiefs gave up that exact same amount yet they were a player lining up offsides away from going to the Super Bowl.  Why? Cause they had an elite offense.    I think an improved Hockensen, healthy Staff and perhaps Jeudy could put the Lions in that elite category.  

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22 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I think people will be disappointed in the trade value with the #3 pick. Outside of Miami, none of the teams interested in a QB have a lot of trade assets. Miami may be content to draft Herbert 5th. The Chargers don't have extra picks but you may be able to get a 2021 1st which you can flip to trade back into the first round.

Furthermore, the Giants are in the sweet spot for a trade down moreso than the Lions. There's no fear of the Giants taking a QB so I don't see a big motivation to jump them, plus it would be a bit cheaper to trade down to 4 so everybody keeps saying the draft really starts at 3 but realistically it starts at 4. I'm sure the Lions are zoned in on just taking the best defensive player on the board or whoever fits their scheme.

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There's just so many factors with pass rush. As Snacks likes to point out on Twitter, sacks come on third and long, so thank your run stuffers for getting you there. While we definitely sucked at pass rush, its so much harder to pin your ears back and attack when its 3rd and 2 or 3 and a draw or screen just crushes you. Pass rush helps coverage, but coverage also helps pass rush. Also injuries were such a factor, as we hoped for probably 1000-1500 snaps from Daniels/Hand as a combo and got 400.

They need another edge though for when Flowers slides inside and Bryant emerging as at least a nickel rush type threat would be nice. I think unless he signs super cheap, they let Robinson walk for someone more versatile in terms of both run stuffing and pass rush. 

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19 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Furthermore, the Giants are in the sweet spot for a trade down moreso than the Lions. There's no fear of the Giants taking a QB so I don't see a big motivation to jump them, plus it would be a bit cheaper to trade down to 4 so everybody keeps saying the draft really starts at 3 but realistically it starts at 4. I'm sure the Lions are zoned in on just taking the best defensive player on the board or whoever fits their scheme.

The reason for the rumors are that Gettleman has never made a trade down in any round in his GM career. He also reportedly even refused to take phone calls on the Saquon Barkley pick(the Colts were the next pick and traded Sam Darnold for Quentin Nelson and 3 second round picks after DG took Barkley). Quinn only has one or two trade downs and none in the first, but he has typically been seen as someone willing to make deals. He has also often done so with former Patriot colleagues, and Miami at 5 is run by a couple former Pats. 

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23 hours ago, NYLion said:

Furthermore, the Giants are in the sweet spot for a trade down moreso than the Lions. There's no fear of the Giants taking a QB so I don't see a big motivation to jump them, plus it would be a bit cheaper to trade down to 4 so everybody keeps saying the draft really starts at 3 but realistically it starts at 4. I'm sure the Lions are zoned in on just taking the best defensive player on the board or whoever fits their scheme.

No they are NOT.

The Lions are in the catbird seat. Period.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-why-a-healthy-tua-tagovailoa-matters-so-much-to-the-lions-184030422.html

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On 1/9/2020 at 10:11 PM, RandyMarsh said:

Our d certainly sucked but you can win with a bad D if your offense is good.  The Lions gave up on average 26.4 points a game this year, last year the Chiefs gave up that exact same amount yet they were a player lining up offsides away from going to the Super Bowl.  Why? Cause they had an elite offense.    I think an improved Hockensen, healthy Staff and perhaps Jeudy could put the Lions in that elite category.  

This is where I am.  The Lions were in nearly every game this year down to the wire.  They have an epic bad D and an offense thats a couple of healthy players and an impact guy like Jeudy from being elite.  I really like what I saw from the running backs.  Lots of spare parts getting it done on the ground, even with the backup QBs in there.  The O line was pretty good too. 

Draft Jeudy and somehow move the D up a notch from awful to below average and this could easily be a 11 win team.

The Achilles Heel IMO is Patricia and Quinn by extension, for all of the reasons outlined around here.  If they had exploited the draft competently, not traded away important players in the middle of the year two years in a row, ran something other than a brain-dead D scheme and managed game situations down the stretch better, they could have easily been a winning team this year even with the Stafford injury.  The mgt factor + Staffords back are my major reasons for doubt.

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41 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

This is where I am.  The Lions were in nearly every game this year down to the wire.  They have an epic bad D and an offense thats a couple of healthy players and an impact guy like Jeudy from being elite.  I really like what I saw from the running backs.  Lots of spare parts getting it done on the ground, even with the backup QBs in there.  The O line was pretty good too. 

Draft Jeudy and somehow move the D up a notch from awful to below average and this could easily be a 11 win team.

The Achilles Heel IMO is Patricia and Quinn by extension, for all of the reasons outlined around here.  If they had exploited the draft competently, not traded away important players in the middle of the year two years in a row, ran something other than a brain-dead D scheme and managed game situations down the stretch better, they could have easily been a winning team this year even with the Stafford injury.  The mgt factor + Staffords back are my major reasons for doubt.

Your disappointed about trading away Tate? Even though the Lions were out of the playoffs and Tate was in the last year of his contract? On top of that, they were able to get similar production this year from Amendola for a fraction of the cost. 

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22 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Your disappointed about trading away Tate? Even though the Lions were out of the playoffs and Tate was in the last year of his contract? On top of that, they were able to get similar production this year from Amendola for a fraction of the cost. 

Yeah they were never going to re-sign him, and that worked out well in 2019 as you said was Amendola as his replacement.  But they were not out of it when he was traded last year.  They were very much in it at 3-4 and had won 3 out of 4 games.  Stafford was on a roll with 5 strong games.  He proceeded to have a string of bad games after the trade and they were out of it. 

I'm not saying that if they kept Tate they would have had a winning season.  I'm just saying that it seemed to hurt the team last year in the thick of the chase when the goal after firing Caldwell was to make + advance in the playoffs now.

Anyway, that was only one of a slew of questionable moves by Quinn.

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I like Jeudy and everything that he’s shown is that he can become an explosive slot receiver.  He has good height but has a small frame and isn’t very strong in the upper body.  There is a question whether he can play outside in the NFL.  It’s hard to run precise routes if you can’t get off a jam at the line.   He’s spent most of his time in the slot and Bama’s deep WR usually puts him in a nice matchup.  
 

That leaves the question of the value of spending the #3 overall pick on a slot WR.  Maybe people think that he can get stronger and become a dominant outside guy but there seems to be some question about that.   I think when I look at him at #3 it’s sort of like last year with Hockenson, I like the player but not at that draft position. 

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I'm really steadfast in that I believe the Lions need to draft Derrick Brown at three, without moving down.  

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1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

I like Jeudy and everything that he’s shown is that he can become an explosive slot receiver.  He has good height but has a small frame and isn’t very strong in the upper body.  There is a question whether he can play outside in the NFL.  It’s hard to run precise routes if you can’t get off a jam at the line.   He’s spent most of his time in the slot and Bama’s deep WR usually puts him in a nice matchup.  
 

That leaves the question of the value of spending the #3 overall pick on a slot WR.  Maybe people think that he can get stronger and become a dominant outside guy but there seems to be some question about that.   I think when I look at him at #3 it’s sort of like last year with Hockenson, I like the player but not at that draft position. 

And there is a question with any skill FB how putting more lbs on a  small frame will affect speed/quickness. His ball catching skill is just sick though.

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Watching how the Titans seem to have prepared for Lamar Jackson, it is obvious the Lions totally picked the wrong Belichick protege...........................Imagine that - change your defense to focus on the other team's strength.  What a concept!

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Watching how the Titans seem to have prepared for Lamar Jackson, it is obvious the Lions totally picked the wrong Belichick protege...........................Imagine that - change your defense to focus on the other team's strength.  What a concept!

I'm old enough to remember when you said Vrabel was an idiot and not a huge success. 

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