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1 minute ago, Jason_R said:

I suspect the Chargers are still in win now mode. Their record is terrible, but their point differential is +2. 

Oakland might be a wild card, but Carr hasn’t played that badly. 

Still, all you need is one GM who thinks Tua is the next Mahomes.

But... What if that GM is Bob Quinn?

Philip Rivers is a free agent and likely not coming back. Even if he does, how much does he have left? The Chargers are struggling to draw fans and could do like the Rams and make a splash trading up for a QB.

Martha has put an ultimatum on Quinn to make the playoffs. He's not going to draft a developmental QB with the 3rd pick when they already have a franchise QB. This is all provided Stafford isn't damaged goods. 

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9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Philip Rivers is a free agent and likely not coming back. Even if he does, how much does he have left? The Chargers are struggling to draw fans and could do like the Rams and make a splash trading up for a QB.

Martha has put an ultimatum on Quinn to make the playoffs. He's not going to draft a developmental QB with the 3rd pick when they already have a franchise QB. This is all provided Stafford isn't damaged goods. 

It is good if LAC are in urgent need of a QB. 

It is not good if BQ thinks he is. 

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1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

If the Lions have a top 5 pick, they should get some much needed talent. The secret is finding talent in the later rounds.

No, the secret is hitting on your first and second round picks.      Look at recent #1 picks..........Taylor Decker, Jarrad Davis, TJ Hockenson, Frank Ragnow................not a star in the bunch and the only one that is above serviceable right now is Ragnow.  The rest are journeyman-type of players (I know it's early on Big Hock).............The second round has been a major bust (Kerryon was injury prone in college)................You have to hit in those first two rounds, you have to find really good impact talent.   If they do better than expected in the later rounds it's not nearly enough to make up for the failures in the top 2 rounds.      The team's 2nd round history going back 3 decades is abysmal.  

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all i can say is that watching mitch threepicksky flail around while the bears get whooped is making it a great sunday indeed.

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8 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

But the scheme from our defensive genius made him look like Johnny Unitas..................Twice.

Truth. His defense just gets worse and worse. 

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14 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

What good is drafting Chase Young if you are only going to rush 3 all the time?   Easy to double team him.  By the time next year comes Snacks will be counting his paycheck money Flowers will be neutralized.    

Haha, you guys think they'll draft Young? Oh, you silly gooses.

Quinntricia hasn't drafted one edge rusher in their two drafts, they put a premium on getting pressure up the middle and depending heavily on the back 7 to cover. I bet they'd take Brown over Young if he fell to 3 or even Okudah over Young. They are more into players who fit the scheme than the most talented player. Some teams draft BPA, the Lions tend to draft for fit.

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7 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Haha, you guys think they'll draft Young? Oh, you silly gooses.

Quinntricia hasn't drafted one edge rusher in their two drafts, they put a premium on getting pressure up the middle and depending heavily on the back 7 to cover. I bet they'd take Brown over Young if he fell to 3 or even Okudah over Young. They are more into players who fit the scheme than the most talented player. Some teams draft BPA, the Lions tend to draft for fit.

The highest edge rusher Bob Quinn has picked was Austin Bryant this past year in the 4th round. Before that, I believe the only other DE Quinn has drafted was Jeremiah Ledbetter. Who?

They simply don't value the position nor the concept of pressuring/getting after the QB. Sure, they play a 3-4, but rarely do they bring two additional guys off the edge to rush the QB. Their scheme is rush 3 or rush 4 and drop 7 or 8 into coverage. Containment of the receivers and a bend-but-don't-break philosophy guides this defense. So Chase Young, being an elite-level, pure edge guy, won't be the pick as you said. A multi-faceted guy like Isiah Simmons, who can play in the box as a safety or maybe even be a WILL in the middle of the field, seems more their type of player. Andrew Thomas, Tackle out of Georgia, is another name to watch.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The highest edge rusher Bob Quinn has picked was Austin Bryant this past year in the 4th round. Before that, I believe the only other DE Quinn has drafted was Jeremiah Ledbetter. Who?

They simply don't value the position nor the concept of pressuring/getting after the QB. Sure, they play a 3-4, but rarely do they bring two additional guys off the edge to rush the QB. Their scheme is rush 3 or rush 4 and drop 7 or 8 into coverage. Containment of the receivers and a bend-but-don't-break philosophy guides this defense. So Chase Young, being an elite-level, pure edge guy, won't be the pick as you said. A multi-faceted guy like Isiah Simmons, who can play in the box as a safety or maybe even be a WILL in the middle of the field, seems more their type of player. Andrew Thomas, Tackle out of Georgia, is another name to watch.

They signed a pass rusher to a $90 million contract.

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8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They signed a pass rusher to a $90 million contract.

No, they signed a multi-faceted Defensive End to a $90 million contract. Flowers is/can be a very nice player to be sure, but he is not a pure pass rusher. He has never eclipsed 7 sacks in a season. Bringing in someone like Frank Clark, Dee Ford, or Preston Smith would have been better acquisitions if rushing the passer was their primary focus.

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15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They signed a pass rusher to a $90 million contract.

Not really. They signed Flowers as a multi-faceted DE who can move around the line. He's not a pure pass rusher. 

Anyway, the point is that they haven't drafted an edge rusher in 2 years so there is some validity to one assuming that they don't value the position.

 

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9 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Not really. They signed Flowers as a multi-faceted DE who can move around the line. He's not a pure pass rusher. 

Anyway, the point is that they haven't drafted an edge rusher in 2 years so there is some validity to one assuming that they don't value the position.

 

I think the fact that they play a 3-4 and typically rush 3 with 7-8 guys dropping back in coverage shows that as well. The scheme they play is an indicator of what they do and don't value.

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3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I think the fact that they play a 3-4 and typically rush 3 with 7-8 guys dropping back in coverage shows that as well. The scheme they play is an indicator of what they do and don't value.

Yep, they specifically target players who fit over BPA. They're not the only team that does this but the Lions seem particularly reliant on "scheme" players. The Lions scheme would somewhat mitigate Young's skillset because he'll see constant double teams.

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4 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Yep, they specifically target players who fit over BPA. They're not the only team that does this but the Lions seem particularly reliant on "scheme" players. The Lions scheme would somewhat mitigate Young's skillset because he'll see constant double teams.

Under a normal defensive scheme were he to be double teamed that's where holes should be opening up for guys like Flowers, Okwara, Davis, and Kennard to go after the QB because they would be sending 2-3 guys in on a blitz. However, I fear with Patrica and the way he lays out a defense, that Young would get double teamed and they would still fail to send the extra rusher or two necessary to get pressure on the QB. The scheme is fundamentally flawed and until it changes, the value of any edge guy we bring in will be hampered.

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34 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

No, they signed a multi-faceted Defensive End to a $90 million contract. Flowers is/can be a very nice player to be sure, but he is not a pure pass rusher. He has never eclipsed 7 sacks in a season. Bringing in someone like Frank Clark, Dee Ford, or Preston Smith would have been better acquisitions if rushing the passer was their primary focus.

Funny, back when the Lions signed Flowers you yourself said that was a better move than bringing in Frank Clark. It's not like Frank Clark has been any better than Flowers. There were people on here saying Flowers was an elite pass rusher. We are all better GM's in hindsight.

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24 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Not really. They signed Flowers as a multi-faceted DE who can move around the line. He's not a pure pass rusher. 

Anyway, the point is that they haven't drafted an edge rusher in 2 years so there is some validity to one assuming that they don't value the position.

 

The point was they didn't value pass rushers but they signed one to a large contract. If the Lions drafted pass rushers, people would complain they don't care about another position. They haven't drafted a WR higher than a late 3rd so that means they don't value WR.

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17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The point was they didn't value pass rushers but they signed one to a large contract. If the Lions drafted pass rushers, people would complain they don't care about another position. They haven't drafted a WR higher than a late 3rd so that means they don't value WR.

but they openly say they want guys who set the edge and defend the run.  they've passed on plenty of pure edge rushers and seem to focus on players who can do other things better.  that's flowers, he's not a pure speed edge rusher by any means, but is a jack of all trades and good at assignment football.  thats what they want out of their ends, imo.

is chase young so good of a prospect that they would throw all that away and take him anyway?  i dont know, but i dont think signing flowers indicates they value a pure edge pass rusher.

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29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The point was they didn't value pass rushers but they signed one to a large contract. If the Lions drafted pass rushers, people would complain they don't care about another position. They haven't drafted a WR higher than a late 3rd so that means they don't value WR.

They signed Flowers specifically to "set the edge" and because of his versatility, their words not mine. I'm sure they value his ability to pressure the QB but it wasn't the primary reason they signed him. I was a big fan of the signing btw so I'm not saying it was a bad signing.

I don't think anybody would complain if they drafted some pass rushers. Most of us have been crying to the high heavens for them to go pass rush heavy in the draft ever since Ansah's wheels fell off. Still waiting for one in the Quinntricia era.

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

but they openly say they want guys who set the edge and defend the run.  they've passed on plenty of pure edge rushers and seem to focus on players who can do other things better.  that's flowers, he's not a pure speed edge rusher by any means, but is a jack of all trades and good at assignment football.  thats what they want out of their ends, imo.

is chase young so good of a prospect that they would throw all that away and take him anyway?  i dont know, but i dont think signing flowers indicates they value a pure edge pass rusher.

We were told Flowers had one of the best pressure rates in the NFL. The thought was that those pressures would start turning into sacks. They didn't just give $90 million to a guy that is just a jack of all trades. They gave it to a premium pass rusher who is also good against the run. He was also considered the best pass rusher available. They didn't just go throw a lot of money at him because he was a scheme fit. Flowers would have gotten a huge contract from another team if the Lions didn't sign him.

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They had one quarterback hit yesterday. And the Broncos posted their best pass rush blocking rate of the year. That's scheme and talent.

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

We were told Flowers had one of the best pressure rates in the NFL. The thought was that those pressures would start turning into sacks. They didn't just give $90 million to a guy that is just a jack of all trades. They gave it to a premium pass rusher who is also good against the run. He was also considered the best pass rusher available. They didn't just go throw a lot of money at him because he was a scheme fit. Flowers would have gotten a huge contract from another team if the Lions didn't sign him.

i know, but flowers' "pressures" have almost never turned into sacks.

he's not a pure speed edge rusher.  not by a longshot.  that doesnt mean he's a bad player, but it also doesnt mean he's a real difference maker on the dline.

i think if they put a pure rusher on the opposite side of him, it would work really well.

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Funny, back when the Lions signed Flowers you yourself said that was a better move than bringing in Frank Clark. It's not like Frank Clark has been any better than Flowers. There were people on here saying Flowers was an elite pass rusher. We are all better GM's in hindsight.

Here is what I said in-regards to Clark versus Flowers.

 

Frank Clark.png

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2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Here is what I said in-regards to Clark versus Flowers.

 

Frank Clark.png

Yes, you just confirmed exactly what I said. Today you said bringing in someone like Frank Clark would have been a better acquisition. Clark has as many sacks as Flowers but is getting paid more and the Lions would have given up a top 10 pick to acquire him. It's possible the asking price would have been different for the Lions since Kansas City gave up a late 1st.

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4 hours ago, Buddha said:

but they openly say they want guys who set the edge and defend the run.  they've passed on plenty of pure edge rushers and seem to focus on players who can do other things better.  that's flowers, he's not a pure speed edge rusher by any means, but is a jack of all trades and good at assignment football.  thats what they want out of their ends, imo.

is chase young so good of a prospect that they would throw all that away and take him anyway?  i dont know, but i dont think signing flowers indicates they value a pure edge pass rusher.

I have a hard time believing that if Young was available when the Lions pick, they would not pick him. Just because they did not pick Montez Sweat. 

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