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hardyaf

Matthew Stafford

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Just wanted to start a new thread here since most threads seem to be about the lions, and I honestly didn't want to dredge the Sanchez thread back up. After this season, can we all finally agree that Matthew Stafford is an elite QB on an 0-16 team? And can we stop with the nonsense that he can't elevate people? This offense is dog poop (apart from the first starts from both back up QBs, and we know what tape does...). I mean they are losing because of a putrid defense for sure, but the entire offense has also taken a huge step back back (and on the "easy" part of the schedule too). 

Let's face it. Stafford is another elite talent the lions have wasted. This team is, and always has been garbage without him.

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Their offense sucks because the backup QB sucks.  It was running very well with Stafford, who was brilliant early in the year.

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stafford is the only reason this team hasnt been a 3 win team every year.

which says a lot about the level of talent bob quinn has assembled around him.

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8 hours ago, hardyaf said:

After this season, can we all finally agree that Matthew Stafford is an elite QB on an 0-16 team? And can we stop with the nonsense that he can't elevate people? 

Let's face it. Stafford is another elite talent the lions have wasted. This team is, and always has been garbage without him.

Yes. Agreed. 

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3 hours ago, Buddha said:

stafford is the only reason this team hasnt been a 3 win team every year.

which says a lot about the level of talent bob quinn has assembled around him.

We've been saying for years that this a 2-3 win team without Stafford (Those of us who didn't say Sanchez>Stafford). It appears that we were wrong... This is a 0 win team without Stafford.

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I have always thought Stafford was a top tier guy.  The years we had talent around him and a good Defense we have done well.  Blaming all the woes on a team of 53 on one person is lazy IMO and something far too many fans do.

Stafford has had some elite years and some good years and maybe a couple below average years, but his career as a whole can be described as nothing more than great.

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I'll call him very good, but not elite.    No playoff wins (partly his fault) and a horrible record against winning teams.  Can't get past that.  It's like Harbaugh at Michigan - you have to win some games you are not supposed to win to be considered elite.   

I do agree that this team would be forever 4 wins without him, but he's had enough talent around him to rise up and win a couple of playoff games.  

The Lions at 3 or 4 or 5 have to consider Tua if he's there.  I know they won't because the coach and GM are desperate for wins now, but broken back two years in a row.............that clock is ticking fast. 

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Stafford is a legend.

He has become my favourite Lion of all time.  He is tough as nails.

Having said that I almost hope they trade him so he can chase a playoff win.

 

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46 minutes ago, kgeorge78 said:

Stafford is a legend.

He has become my favourite Lion of all time.  He is tough as nails.

Having said that I almost hope they trade him so he can chase a playoff win.

 

They can't.  His worth is all but gone because of the 2 back injuries.   Maybe a team gets desperate next year but the problem in the NFL is the trade deadline comes very early..........if it came with 3 or 4 games to go they'd have a much better chance of trading him.   He is tough and I think because his first two seasons got cut short that some people thought he wasn't.............but look at the plays where he got hurt......nobody walks away from those.  

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3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I'll call him very good, but not elite.    No playoff wins (partly his fault) and a horrible record against winning teams.  Can't get past that.  It's like Harbaugh at Michigan - you have to win some games you are not supposed to win to be considered elite.   

I do agree that this team would be forever 4 wins without him, but he's had enough talent around him to rise up and win a couple of playoff games.  

The Lions at 3 or 4 or 5 have to consider Tua if he's there.  I know they won't because the coach and GM are desperate for wins now, but broken back two years in a row.............that clock is ticking fast. 

Tua doesn't fit the Rocket  Scientist's defensive scheme.

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, six-hopper said:

Tua doesn't fit the Rocket  Scientist's defensive scheme.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, he is a genius.  He carries a pencil to write on a laminated play card.......................

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unless stafford is seriously injured, the lions would be stupid to draft a qb in round 1.

if stafford is really hurt to the point where he may not play, then they should really think about a qb.

if he's not, they might want to invest some money in a backup.

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On 12/21/2019 at 7:49 AM, Motor City Sonics said:

I'll call him very good, but not elite.    No playoff wins (partly his fault) and a horrible record against winning teams.  Can't get past that.  It's like Harbaugh at Michigan - you have to win some games you are not supposed to win to be considered elite.   

I do agree that this team would be forever 4 wins without him, but he's had enough talent around him to rise up and win a couple of playoff games.  

The Lions at 3 or 4 or 5 have to consider Tua if he's there.  I know they won't because the coach and GM are desperate for wins now, but broken back two years in a row.............that clock is ticking fast. 

This year is once again showing that maybe the "talent" he had around him wasn't so talented. Other talented teams don't fall apart when the QB goes down.

Taking Tua would be utter nonsense. This team isn't in that stage of a rebuild. If you think Stafford's window is shut, you draft BPA this year, suck again next year and look for a QB in next years draft. If you think Stafford is good to go (and was probably shut down to tank the season once he got even slightly hurt), you draft a pass rusher and take a shot. There is no scenario where grabbing a QB makes sense.

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Not a big fan of Tua, especially the left-handedness (and I'm a lefty).  Joe Burrow is the best QB coming out in the draft that I can remember.  I like Hebert, and a few others like Love.  Don't like Hurts at all.

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On 12/21/2019 at 7:49 AM, Motor City Sonics said:

 

The Lions at 3 or 4 or 5 have to consider Tua if he's there.  I know they won't because the coach and GM are desperate for wins now, but broken back two years in a row.............that clock is ticking fast. 

Silly. 

And this whole idea of drafting a QB of the future is a major Mendela Effect thing. How often has that worked? Aaron Rogers...so once. Play a good QB as long as you can and then be bad for a season and get your next one. 

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I do think they need to try to get better backup QB(s) going forward.  It just seems like they've had the mentality that "If Stafford goes down we're screwed anyway so why bother investing in something better?" and I think that is a bad mentality.   Yes we would've been screwed this year no matter who we had but there were multiple games there where if we even had your average backup QB we probably would've won.    

I know that wouldn't have mattered this year but god forbid this happens again and we're in the middle of a division race and Staff misses a month or so having a QB that could win 1 out of the 4 games vs. 0 could be the difference between missing and making the playoffs.  

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I thought Driskel played well as the backup. They did invest two 6th round picks in developmental QBs. I would be fine bringing back Driskel. I don't think the likes of Rivers, Newton or Manning are interested in being a backup. Maybe Joe Flacco? Marcus Mariota is another interesting possibility. I think someone may give him a starting gig.

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Well now we're starting to hear that Glasgow wants out...............both tackles might be gone and Snacks Harrison is talking retirement (to get himself out of here).   Does anybody think this team will be any good next year no matter how they draft?    I get a feeling it's similar to Mike Babcock and guys don't want to play for Patricia.    You can be a redarse if you win, but not if you go 9-22-1 and nobody wants to deal with that.    So the Lions will either overpay for guys or take guys at the end of their careers looking to cash in one more time.   So who really cares what they do, this Quintricia thing is bunk.  

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7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Well now we're starting to hear that Glasgow wants out...............both tackles might be gone and Snacks Harrison is talking retirement (to get himself out of here).   Does anybody think this team will be any good next year no matter how they draft?    I get a feeling it's similar to Mike Babcock and guys don't want to play for Patricia.    You can be a redarse if you win, but not if you go 9-22-1 and nobody wants to deal with that.    So the Lions will either overpay for guys or take guys at the end of their careers looking to cash in one more time.   So who really cares what they do, this Quintricia thing is bunk.  

I never try to predict the NFL.  The Lions played in 12 games decided by 1 possession or less and only won 3 of them.     If those results were flipped we'd finish 8-7-1 with a back up QB playing most of the games.    There's just so much volatility in the NFL and such a small sample size of games you never know what is going to happen.  

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On 12/20/2019 at 8:03 AM, Buddha said:

stafford is the only reason this team hasnt been a 3 win team every year.

which says a lot about the level of talent bob quinn has assembled around him.

dammit lol

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12 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Well now we're starting to hear that Glasgow wants out...............both tackles might be gone and Snacks Harrison is talking retirement (to get himself out of here).   Does anybody think this team will be any good next year no matter how they draft?    I get a feeling it's similar to Mike Babcock and guys don't want to play for Patricia.    You can be a redarse if you win, but not if you go 9-22-1 and nobody wants to deal with that.    So the Lions will either overpay for guys or take guys at the end of their careers looking to cash in one more time.   So who really cares what they do, this Quintricia thing is bunk.  

That's a stretch, but its possible he could leave clickbait lead off aside 

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12 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I never try to predict the NFL.  The Lions played in 12 games decided by 1 possession or less and only won 3 of them.     If those results were flipped we'd finish 8-7-1 with a back up QB playing most of the games.    There's just so much volatility in the NFL and such a small sample size of games you never know what is going to happen.  

What data overwhelmingly tells us is that close games are decided mostly by luck in the NFL. Patricia knows what he is doing getting us to a level where we have a chance in any given game as step one. We saw with the Packers and Chiefs, even Arizona games how we could have gone from 3-41 to 5-2-1 or so with a couple of bounces. The next step that he has to achieve is you have to be able to get clear wins against the inferior teams of the league. You dominate(to at least a degree) against those squads and put yourself in close games against the playoff squads and that's your path to a regular 10+. Then obviously there's the final step of becoming truly elite. 

Caldwell did a good job of taking care of business against those crap teams, which is one step ahead of Patricia now, but he never was able to take that step to give us a real chance against the elites. 

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20 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I do think they need to try to get better backup QB(s) going forward.  It just seems like they've had the mentality that "If Stafford goes down we're screwed anyway so why bother investing in something better?" and I think that is a bad mentality.   Yes we would've been screwed this year no matter who we had but there were multiple games there where if we even had your average backup QB we probably would've won.    

I know that wouldn't have mattered this year but god forbid this happens again and we're in the middle of a division race and Staff misses a month or so having a QB that could win 1 out of the 4 games vs. 0 could be the difference between missing and making the playoffs.  

Yeah, but there were multiple games where the Lions had Stafford and still lost, leaving them far behind in the race at the halfway point. 

If Stafford truly does have a clean bill of health now, I hope the Ford family has told Quinn he does not have permission to spend a draft pick on a QB. His roster has too many holes as it is.

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12 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

What data overwhelmingly tells us is that close games are decided mostly by luck in the NFL. Patricia knows what he is doing getting us to a level where we have a chance in any given game as step one. We saw with the Packers and Chiefs, even Arizona games how we could have gone from 3-41 to 5-2-1 or so with a couple of bounces. The next step that he has to achieve is you have to be able to get clear wins against the inferior teams of the league. You dominate(to at least a degree) against those squads and put yourself in close games against the playoff squads and that's your path to a regular 10+. Then obviously there's the final step of becoming truly elite. 

Caldwell did a good job of taking care of business against those crap teams, which is one step ahead of Patricia now, but he never was able to take that step to give us a real chance against the elites. 

one day i want to meet the person who thinks matt patricia is a good coach who did a good job this year and that the lions are 3-12-1 just because of bad luck.

when the rubber hit the road on the lions this year, the other teams just used their superior talent to beat the lions in the second half.

they were under .500 with a healthy stafford and with their extremely poor defense - patricia's supposed specialty - they were likely to remain under .500, luck or no luck.

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if stafford had stayed healthy, the lions probably split with the bears, beat the skins, and beat the pack at home.  6-9-1, imo.  strikingly similar to last year.

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