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Casimir

12/9/2019 8:00 EST Detroit Pistons at New Orleans Pelicans

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

he said if drummond opts out and they want to keep him.

if he opts out and the pistons let him walk, they should have some space.

dc313: yeah buddha you were right.

buddha: no worries!

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Just now, Buddha said:

dc313: yeah buddha you were right.

buddha: no worries!

Fake.

Your reply would be way more condescending than that.

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11 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

If they let all those guys go, including Drummond, they should have roughly $40M in cap space.

If they keep him, no cap space before he signs since he will have a $40M cap hold.  Once they sign him, subtract the first year of his deal from the $40M and that is the cap space they would have.

This is assuming the cap projection of $116M is accurate.

I'd say $40 million in cap space is pretty good if they let him go. That alone is a path forward out of mediocrity if you have almost no long term contracts on your team. 

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36 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

I'd say $40 million in cap space is pretty good if they let him go. That alone is a path forward out of mediocrity if you have almost no long term contracts on your team. 

Cap space doesn't do much for a team like Detroit.  At least if using it on free agents is the goal.  

Cap space is valuable if they do a rebuild.  Use it to take on bad contracts for 2-3 years and get draft picks for taking those bad deals on.

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As long as we are going to embrace mediocrity, it would be nice if Griffin started playing better.  Shooting under 40% on the year right now.  

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7 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Fake.

Your reply would be way more condescending than that.

of course its fake.  he would never admit i was right about anything.

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Speaking of finding talent.

Undrafted Kendrick Nunn had 36 points tonight for Miami.  He is averaging 15 PPG this year.

Undrafted Duncan Robinson had 34 points tonight for Miami including 10-14 from three.  He is averaging 11 PPG this year.

Miami is 18-6.

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9 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Speaking of finding talent.

Undrafted Kendrick Nunn had 36 points tonight for Miami.  He is averaging 15 PPG this year.

Undrafted Duncan Robinson had 34 points tonight for Miami including 10-14 from three.  He is averaging 11 PPG this year.

Miami is 18-6.

F Kendrick Nunn, and I am amazed at how people are overlooking his past.

Quote

Nunn pled guilty to a misdemeanor battery charge following a domestic violence arrest in 2016. Within the charge, Nunn pled to hitting a woman in the head, pushing her to the ground and pouring hot water on her. That led to Nunn being dismissed from the Illinois basketball team. From there, he landed at Oakland. The coach at Oakland is Greg Kampe, who is one of the more respected figures within the college basketball coaching industry. Kampe swears by Nunn and raves about the way he treated people while he was a part of the Oakland program. Additionally, the Warriors spoke at length about the process they undertook before deciding to sign Nunn as an undrafted free agent last year. They vetted him, did their due diligence, and ultimately felt like it would be okay to add him to their roster.

And indeed, I’m not someone who says that a person shouldn’t get a second chance. I strongly believe, though, that the person has to have displayed some sort of rehabilitation beyond what the court-mandated community tasks were. That person needs to show an understanding of the issue of domestic violence, get why it’s such a critical issue currently in our country, and go out of the way to make an impact on the community. And this apparently is where Nunn failed.

Back in 2018, in the middle of Nunn’s breakout collegiate season, Chicago Tribune writer Shannon Ryan spoke to him about the transgression. He said he completed the court-mandated punishment, and says that now he would have walked away from the issue. But then, he continued by stating the patently incorrect claim that, “When there’s a female involved, they automatically listen to what she says.”

Source: https://theathletic.com/1302814/2019/10/24/2019-nba-rookie-scale-rankings-no-18-miami-heat/

 

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10 hours ago, Buddha said:

of course its fake.  he would never admit i was right about anything.

As opposed to all the times you admitted I was right about something.

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19 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

As opposed to all the times you admitted I was right about something.

like what?

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30 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

F Kendrick Nunn, and I am amazed at how people are overlooking his past.

 

Sports fans are pretty forgiving if you have talent.  I wasn't aware of his past.  

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12 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Speaking of finding talent.

Undrafted Kendrick Nunn had 36 points tonight for Miami.  He is averaging 15 PPG this year.

Undrafted Duncan Robinson had 34 points tonight for Miami including 10-14 from three.  He is averaging 11 PPG this year.

Miami is 18-6.

Wood could be that guy. He's averaging roughly 9 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes. He's the one guy in the organization outside of Sekou who has the potential to be a standout if developed properly. 

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8 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Wood could be that guy. He's averaging roughly 9 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes. He's the one guy in the organization outside of Sekou who has the potential to be a standout if developed properly. 

I think people are sleeping on Kennard's offensive ceiling. He is 23 and is averaging 16/4/3 on a 44/40/90 split. 

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2 hours ago, 313DetroitCity said:

I think people are sleeping on Kennard's offensive ceiling. He is 23 and is averaging 16/4/3 on a 44/40/90 split. 

I think his ceiling is JJ Redick with even less defense potential. Good scorer, good starter, especially useful on a team that has superstar(s) who can get him open looks. But he's not an elite talent himself and JJ Redick isn't getting you anywhere without the aforementioned superstars.

Problem is you aren't bringing superstars to Detroit with FA money. You've got to stockpile high draft picks (not mediocre ones) and/or trade for a superstar with high value assets (like draft picks). NYLion already laid it out correctly - this thing has to be rebooted.

It would be a terrible mistake not to trade Dre for assets before the deadline and an even worse move to re-sign him. But I have no faith that Gores will allow his front office to do the right thing.

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2 hours ago, 313DetroitCity said:

I think people are sleeping on Kennard's offensive ceiling. He is 23 and is averaging 16/4/3 on a 44/40/90 split. 

I don't see a lot of growth potential in Kennard. He's the type of player who is a surefire starter who can get you buckets but doesn't have star potential. Basically, a #3 option on a good team.

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17 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

I think his ceiling is JJ Redick with even less defense potential. Good scorer, good starter, especially useful on a team that has superstar(s) who can get him open looks. But he's not an elite talent himself and JJ Redick isn't getting you anywhere without the aforementioned superstars.

Problem is you aren't bringing superstars to Detroit with FA money. You've got to stockpile high draft picks (not mediocre ones) and/or trade for a superstar with high value assets (like draft picks). NYLion already laid it out correctly - this thing has to be rebooted.

It would be a terrible mistake not to trade Dre for assets before the deadline and an even worse move to re-sign him. But I have no faith that Gores will allow his front office to do the right thing.

JJ is a more pure shooter, but I think Luke can do more with the ball in his hand than JJ could. Luke will never be a guy who can carry an offense, but he has the ability to be elite with his efficiency and I genuinely believe he will continue to improve as his confidence grows. 

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1 minute ago, NYLion said:

I don't see a lot of growth potential in Kennard. He's the type of player who is a surefire starter who can get you buckets but doesn't have star potential. Basically, a #3 option on a good team.

The reality is that the vast majority of people gave up on Luke early on and never even saw him being this good. All analysis of Luke has basically been is "should have picked Mitchell." The guy is balling out on offense in his own right, and I think it isn't fair to say he is a finished product right now when he has made vast improvements from last season to this season.

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46 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

The reality is that the vast majority of people gave up on Luke early on and never even saw him being this good. All analysis of Luke has basically been is "should have picked Mitchell." The guy is balling out on offense in his own right, and I think it isn't fair to say he is a finished product right now when he has made vast improvements from last season to this season.

Saying that he can top out as a good #3 option isn't giving up on him, that's a solid NBA player. The thing is that the Pistons need star potential and he doesn't have that IMO. It's not an insult to Luke but that's how I see it.

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4 hours ago, Betrayer said:

It would be a terrible mistake not to trade Dre for assets before the deadline and an even worse move to re-sign him. But I have no faith that Gores will allow his front office to do the right thing.

Yup - it seems the Pistons are committed to the idea that a team built for 1980 is going to win something in the 2020 NBA.

The weird/funny thing to me about the evolution of pro basketball in my lifetime is how supposedly 'athleticism' at one time was driving the 'skill' out of the game, all the while no-one even conceiving that there were so many guys out there  just waiting to show the world they could sink close to 40% of their shots from 25 ft and  more and so turn the game back outside in.  Weird/funny that it took the 3pt line being there for a whole generation for players to emerge to fully exploit it.

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It's sad that the NBA has slowly turned itself into a one trick pony these days with only one way to win. It's taken some of the fun away.  It's like the All-Star game, which is exciting for a bit but then you realize it has no depth. I wish this was a league where having two max big men was a viable strategy rather than an obvious death sentence. Unfortunately, Gores seems to be the only one who doesn't get it.

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16 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

It's sad that the NBA has slowly turned itself into a one trick pony these days with only one way to win. It's taken some of the fun away.  It's like the All-Star game, which is exciting for a bit but then you realize it has no depth. I wish this was a league where having two max big men was a viable strategy rather than an obvious death sentence. Unfortunately, Gores seems to be the only one who doesn't get it.

They are kind of stuck now. It's basic math. A 50% difference in point value across the line is guaranteed to empty most of the court in front of it because while difference in value is large, the difference in shooting % across the line  will always be small. And of course when the 3 was put in place no-one conceived that so many players could shoot so well, and now the court simply isn't big enough at the baseline to move the line back any more. I suppose they could always make the court wider but since it would cost a couple of rows of $1000 seats....

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I don't think the NBA sees it as a problem (yet), so they probably aren't looking for a solution. And if I'm honest with myself, I'd assume the casual fan is still happy with the state of things (higher scoring, less defense, less ways to win), and that's probably where the majority of money comes from,, so they aren't looking to shift back at all.

Personally, I'd love to see them use analytics to determine the optimal distance for the three point line that would put it at an even risk/reward balance with the paint game based upon shooting percentages versus points per bucket. If that means it has to move out far enough that the baseline three is gone, I'm ok with that. At least there will be more than one way to build a team.

Of course, I'd also like to see regular season officiating more like playoff officiating where they allow a higher level of intensity, physical play, and tough defense.

Yes, I realize I'm in the minority on all of this and the masses just want more 3's and dunks  :)

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36 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

I don't think the NBA sees it as a problem (yet), so they probably aren't looking for a solution. And if I'm honest with myself, I'd assume the casual fan is still happy with the state of things (higher scoring, less defense, less ways to win), and that's probably where the majority of money comes from,, so they aren't looking to shift back at all.

Personally, I'd love to see them use analytics to determine the optimal distance for the three point line that would put it at an even risk/reward balance with the paint game based upon shooting percentages versus points per bucket. If that means it has to move out far enough that the baseline three is gone, I'm ok with that. At least there will be more than one way to build a team.

Of course, I'd also like to see regular season officiating more like playoff officiating where they allow a higher level of intensity, physical play, and tough defense.

Yes, I realize I'm in the minority on all of this and the masses just want more 3's and dunks  :)

I think the deep three has a certain appeal just because the ball hangs in the air so long a fan gets a chance to think through "Is he going to make it from there?" Who knows if that is going to appeal long term? 

Having a deeper arc just cut the side of court would be something to see though.  A basketball game with no-one trying to get open at the baseline would have to look a lot different!

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I think the deep three has a certain appeal just because the ball hangs in the air so long a fan gets a chance to think through "Is he going to make it from there?" Who knows if that is going to appeal long term? 

Having a deeper arc just cut the side of court would be something to see though.  A basketball game with no-one trying to get open at the baseline would have to look a lot different!

Without a doubt, it would change the game and the floor spacing significantly.

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