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Sydney_Fife

Officially TANK time!

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3 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

He's been holding onto Drummond for dear life...

The moment of decision is upon him: keep him and extend him at high cost, or trade him for something.

I have nothing to base it on. But I do think this year has been enlightening. And I'm just thinking the light bulb will turn on in Gores' head.

IDK - statistically, Drummond is playing pretty much the same game he always has. I think the risk is high that if Gores has been a big fan of what Drummond has been doing, he may still a fan of what he is doing now.

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47 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IDK - statistically, Drummond is playing pretty much the same game he always has. I think the risk is high that if Gores has been a big fan of what Drummond has been doing, he may still a fan of what he is doing now.

You hope the new management has been able to get into his ear and change his mind.

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On 12/31/2019 at 11:48 PM, Deleterious said:

You hope the new management has been able to get into his ear and change his mind.

If Gores absolutely loved Drummond and was sure he wanted to retain him at whatever price it took, he would already have received a max extension.

The fact that he hasn't tells me that the Pistons aren't as sold on Drummond as some would like to believe.

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5 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

If Gores absolutely loved Drummond and was sure he wanted to retain him at whatever price it took, he would already have received a max extension.

The fact that he hasn't tells me that the Pistons aren't as sold on Drummond as some would like to believe.

I agree.  But you can still overpay him by quite a bit without maxing him.

 

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1 minute ago, Deleterious said:

I agree.  But you can still overpay him by quite a bit without maxing him.

 

Yeah, they are likely to gauge the market. Which is the smart thing to do right now. If you get him for cheap (which is possible if his value is as low as some want you to believe), that is fine. But the ship of "Drummond is definitely going to get maxed" has sailed IMO.

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1 hour ago, 313DetroitCity said:

If Gores absolutely loved Drummond and was sure he wanted to retain him at whatever price it took, he would already have received a max extension.

The fact that he hasn't tells me that the Pistons aren't as sold on Drummond as some would like to believe.

This assumes Drummond hasn't refused an extension. I know that may seem unlikely but I would never underestimate Drummond's overestimation of his own talent....:cool:

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18 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

This assumes Drummond hasn't refused an extension. I know that may seem unlikely but I would never underestimate Drummond's overestimation of his own talent....:cool:

I seriously doubt he refused a max contract extension. Also, this would very likely have been leaked to the media by now.

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My best guess.

He has been talking a lot lately, unprovoked, about wanting to stay in Detroit his entire career.  I'm guessing they offered him an extension and he wasn't happy with the price.  Him talking like that is his way of attempting to get them to up the offer.  

I think its a coin flip right now if he is traded by the deadline or not.  He could help the cause by agreeing to opt into the last year of his contract.  Teams would be willing to give up a bit more if they have him for 1 1/2 years instead of 1/2 a year.

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2 hours ago, 313DetroitCity said:

... The fact that he hasn't tells me that the Pistons aren't as sold on Drummond as some would like to believe.

The thing is... he'd be a fine component of a championship team... as long as he was your 4th best player.

On the Pistons, he's not. Van Gundy's bet on Blake yielded an extremely highly paid superstar at the very end of his career, and no longer effective/ healthy (pretty much the same thing). Jackson isn't a championship level PG, and he's not on the court enough to even be effective. 

That's why this year "just might" be telling enough to change Gores' mind on him. And as Del stated, maybe Casey has been in his ear enough to also convince him. 

Valiant effort by Van Gundy to bring in talent... but all for naught. It yielded us, basically, nothing.

So... time for new blood. I think we'd all like to see it... but the stumbling block is still Gores.

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59 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

The thing is... he'd be a fine component of a championship team... as long as he was your 4th best player.

On the Pistons, he's not. Van Gundy's bet on Blake yielded an extremely highly paid superstar at the very end of his career, and no longer effective/ healthy (pretty much the same thing). Jackson isn't a championship level PG, and he's not on the court enough to even be effective. 

That's why this year "just might" be telling enough to change Gores' mind on him. And as Del stated, maybe Casey has been in his ear enough to also convince him. 

Valiant effort by Van Gundy to bring in talent... but all for naught. It yielded us, basically, nothing.

So... time for new blood. I think we'd all like to see it... but the stumbling block is still Gores.

If Gores was so resistant to change, why did he fire SVG a year before his contract expired? There is narrative that Gores has refused to change course for the entirety of his tenure here. He has seen failure in the past and fired the person responsible. 

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30 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

If Gores was so resistant to change, why did he fire SVG a year before his contract expired? There is narrative that Gores has refused to change course for the entirety of his tenure here. He has seen failure in the past and fired the person responsible. 

the question is not so much whether he can change course as much as whether he can choose a course any better than his previous one even if it is different. Or IOW, are the Pistons the Tigers after firing Randy Smith, or the Lions after firing Matt Millen?

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After this atrocious season ends, the Pistons will have 11 losing seasons out of 12. Apathy is certainly starting to set in. 

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4 hours ago, 313DetroitCity said:

If Gores was so resistant to change, why did he fire SVG a year before his contract expired? There is narrative that Gores has refused to change course for the entirety of his tenure here. He has seen failure in the past and fired the person responsible. 

he didnt fire svg.  svg quit.

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why do you defend gores so much?  what good has he done as an owner?

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He was able to successfully negotiate for Platinum Equity to become a key sponsor of the Pistons.   I bet there’s nobody else on the planet that could pull that deal off.  

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He has been playing well so this helps the Pistons playoff chances.  Or hurts, depending on your view.

 

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4 hours ago, Sydney_Fife said:

After this atrocious season ends, the Pistons will have 11 losing seasons out of 12. Apathy is certainly starting to set in. 

Apathy has set in for me a long time ago.  I think the last time I had a real sense of optimism was at the end of 2015 when they acquired Reggie Jackson and he performed well for a short period of time after.  Drummond was still young enough where I thought there was a chance for him to take a step towards being a superstar, Reggie could be a top 5-10 PG(lol at that) and whomever we got in the 2015 lottery could become a key piece(double lol at for the Stanley pick), unfortunately none of those things happened.  

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48 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Apathy has set in for me a long time ago.  I think the last time I had a real sense of optimism was at the end of 2015 when they acquired Reggie Jackson and he performed well for a short period of time after.  Drummond was still young enough where I thought there was a chance for him to take a step towards being a superstar, Reggie could be a top 5-10 PG(lol at that) and whomever we got in the 2015 lottery could become a key piece(double lol at for the Stanley pick), unfortunately none of those things happened.  

Last time I was feeling good about the Pistons was the moment before Jennings popped his achilles.

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7 hours ago, 313DetroitCity said:

If Gores was so resistant to change, why did he fire SVG a year before his contract expired? There is narrative that Gores has refused to change course for the entirety of his tenure here. He has seen failure in the past and fired the person responsible. 

I don't think the issue is that he was resistant to change...

It's simply that he has not wanted to give up on Dre...

I've been reluctant to do so as well, thinking if he was surrounded by the right players he'd be a nice piece on a competitive team...

But he's not enough to be the top dog on this, or any team. And he's not surrounded by enough talent to make him worthwhile at an expensive extension.

Heck, Gores might still be unwilling to let go, he might still want to try to surround him with enough talent to try and get better... again, he's still the final decision-maker on whether to let go or not. That hasn't really changed in the past 6 + years. He may still believe in Dre. But I also think this year has shown a spotlight on what this team is without Blake, and without Reggie. And exactly what this team is with Dre as the top (healthy) dog, and what it is not. That may change some of his thinking. We'll see.

Summary: I don't think he's afraid to change team leadership. But so far, he's been reluctant to give up on Dre.

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2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Apathy has set in for me a long time ago.  I think the last time I had a real sense of optimism was at the end of 2015 when they acquired Reggie Jackson and he performed well for a short period of time after.  Drummond was still young enough where I thought there was a chance for him to take a step towards being a superstar, Reggie could be a top 5-10 PG(lol at that) and whomever we got in the 2015 lottery could become a key piece(double lol at for the Stanley pick), unfortunately none of those things happened.  

This.

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Another reason Gores possibly changes his mind on Drummond.  Christian Wood.

He isn't as good, but I would be fine with him as the starting C next year.  Hustles, gets a lot of junk points on offense, seems to have a 3PT shot.  Needs work on defense though.  Remains to be seen what he gets in free agency this summer.  But I imagine his cost to performance ratio is pretty favorable.  

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nobody has to give up on andre, its more of a realization of what a player with his skill set should be paid and then getting him to focus on doing the things he does well.

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14 hours ago, Buddha said:

he didnt fire svg.  svg quit.

Quote

“We have decided that this change is necessary to take our basketball organization to the next level,” said Pistons owner Tom Gores in a statement. “This was a very difficult decision and we did not come to it lightly. I am grateful to Stan for everything he’s done for the Pistons and for the City of Detroit. He rebuilt the culture of our basketball team, re-instilled a winning attitude and work ethic, and took us to the playoffs two years ago. He went all-in from day one to positively impact this franchise and this community."

Van Gundy had one year and $7 million left on his original five-year deal before the two parties decided to call it quits. Owner Tom Gores said Van Gundy wanted to stay but the team decided that change was necessary to regain momentum.

That doesn't sound like someone who quit.

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14 hours ago, Buddha said:

why do you defend gores so much?  what good has he done as an owner?

It is defending him to point out basic facts. He has not been a good owner. But to act as if Drummond is his son and he would never let him go is outright nonsense. 

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13 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Apathy has set in for me a long time ago.  I think the last time I had a real sense of optimism was at the end of 2015 when they acquired Reggie Jackson and he performed well for a short period of time after.  Drummond was still young enough where I thought there was a chance for him to take a step towards being a superstar, Reggie could be a top 5-10 PG(lol at that) and whomever we got in the 2015 lottery could become a key piece(double lol at for the Stanley pick), unfortunately none of those things happened.  

Jackson's injuries drained a lot of his potential. If you look at his athleticism in OKC to where he was in Detroit, it was pretty clear. He could have absolutely been a very good starting PG with a killer instinct in the final minutes of the game. 

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