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2020 Modern Baseball Era Ballot Announced

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Jim Edmonds only lasting a year on the ballot is the worst thing ever.  I don't know if any player is more underrated than him.  I think most people remember him for being a premium defender, but what if I told you his career wOBA is .385, only 10 points less than Miguel Cabrera?  

Ken Griffey Jr. played the same position and same era as Edmonds, Griffey was got in first ballot despite Edmonds having a better wOBA, OPS+, RC+, FAR superior defensive numbers and more 6 win seasons than him.   

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5 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

She could but has declined overtures because she does not feel she is qualified enough to vote on anyone who had a significant portion of their career before she moved here (she moved to the states in 1995).

That didn't stop any of the other writers...Admirable decision nevertheless.  

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13 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Jim Edmonds only lasting a year on the ballot is the worst thing ever.  I don't know if any player is more underrated than him.  I think most people remember him for being a premium defender, but what if I told you his career wOBA is .385, only 10 points less than Miguel Cabrera?  

Ken Griffey Jr. played the same position and same era as Edmonds, Griffey was got in first ballot despite Edmonds having a better wOBA, OPS+, RC+, FAR superior defensive numbers and more 6 win seasons than him.   

He seemed to get a lot of hype when he played.  I am surprised he didn't get more support.  The steroid suspicions hurt everyone in that era even when there was no connection.  

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17 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Jim Edmonds only lasting a year on the ballot is the worst thing ever.  I don't know if any player is more underrated than him.  I think most people remember him for being a premium defender, but what if I told you his career wOBA is .385, only 10 points less than Miguel Cabrera?  

Ken Griffey Jr. played the same position and same era as Edmonds, Griffey was got in first ballot despite Edmonds having a better wOBA, OPS+, RC+, FAR superior defensive numbers and more 6 win seasons than him.   

Chicks love the long ball.

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13 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Jim Edmonds only lasting a year on the ballot is the worst thing ever.  I don't know if any player is more underrated than him.  I think most people remember him for being a premium defender, but what if I told you his career wOBA is .385, only 10 points less than Miguel Cabrera?  

I think Kevin Brown deserved more than just one ballot too.  He may not be good enough to go in, but I think he deserved to be on more than one ballot.  

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13 hours ago, tiger337 said:

That didn't stop any of the other writers...Admirable decision nevertheless.  

I suspect it stopped other writers as well.  We just don't know of them.

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28 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I suspect it stopped other writers as well.  We just don't know of them.

Probably, but there are still a lot of writers with votes who don't seem to understand much about how to evaluate players.  It is getting a little better in recent years. 

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19 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Jim Edmonds only lasting a year on the ballot is the worst thing ever.  I don't know if any player is more underrated than him.  I think most people remember him for being a premium defender, but what if I told you his career wOBA is .385, only 10 points less than Miguel Cabrera?  

Ken Griffey Jr. played the same position and same era as Edmonds, Griffey was got in first ballot despite Edmonds having a better wOBA, OPS+, RC+, FAR superior defensive numbers and more 6 win seasons than him.   

The Hall of Stats has Jim Edmonds at 142.  (There are 232 players in the Hall of Fame.)

Lou Whitaker is at 76, which puts him in the top third of players that the HOS considers deserving to be in a Hall of Fame of 232 players. 

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That site also has Rick Rueschel above Carl Hubbell, Bob Feller and Mariano Rivera and has Blyleven and Phil Niekro in the top 38 overall.

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On 11/13/2019 at 7:45 AM, Buddha said:

true, but i would argue it doesnt make you elite.

all depends on what your standards for the hall of fame are.  if youre a big hall guy, or someone who values longevity a lot, then i can see whitaker.  if youre someone who thinks the hall is only for players who were elite for a period of time - only for the very best - then i dont think whitaker makes the cut.

I don't think you necessarily have to be a big hall guy to include Lou, but at the same time I don't think short bursts of all world performance should guarantee a Hall nod, either. I've argued against including Sandy Koufax, for instance, but he was so-so for five years, all star level for one, all world for five, and then he was gone before his 31st birthday. I don't think that's enough of a body of work for Hall inclusion.

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1 hour ago, leflore said:

That site also has Rick Rueschel above Carl Hubbell, Bob Feller and Mariano Rivera and has Blyleven and Phil Niekro in the top 38 overall.

The site obviously puts a lot of stock in longevity and big career counting stats.  Hank Greenberg's counting stats are fairly small, in large part because right after an MVP season he went into military service and lost four and a half years.  So despite his 1.017 OPS (sixth all-time) and 158 OPS+ (tied for 16th all-time), the HOS has him down at a ridiculous 152.

Still, I think that overall the site's 232 is better than the Hall of Fame's 232.

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Hank Greenberg...he was such a significant athlete historically.  Jackie Robinson deserves the credit he gets for breaking the modern color barrier, but I think Greenberg gets slighted a bit.  Anti-Semitism was a thing in America as well as Europe.  Greenberg was able to overcome it and he enlisted in the armed forces in 1940...before America became involved fully in WWII.

 

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I'm a huge Greenberg fan and have several of his cards in lesser condition. There was a good documentary on Hank maybe 15 years ago. I think I have the dvd

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I went to see that documentary in a very old theater after a long day at work.  I fell asleep for a while in the middle of it, but I think that had more to do with me being tired than the movie.  

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15 hours ago, leflore said:

Larry Doby also gets slighted. He started the same year as Jackie but a few months later

Yes, Doby doesn't get anywhere near the recognition he deserves.  He was the second black player in the Majors and the first in the American League, starting just a little after Jackie Robinson.  And he had to deal with the same crap that Robinson did, yet many people who know a lot about Robinson know nothing about Doby.

He was a great player (career OPS and OPS+ of .876 and 136).   And he really stood out in the AL, because it was much slower than the NL to add black players, and when it did they tended to be pedestrian guys or worse as opposed to stars.  Like Ozzie Virgil and Jim Proctor and Jake Wood with the Tigers, and Pumpsie Green with the Red Sox.  Meanwhile,  through the Fifties and Sixties, the National League loaded up with black All-Stars and Hall-of-Famers like Willie Mays and Hank Aaron and Roy Campanella and  Ernie Banks and Willie McCovey and Willie Stargell and Roberto Clemente and Bob Gibson and Frank Robinson and Lou Brock and Curt Flood and Joe Morgan and Billy Williams and Dick Allen.  So I suspect that life in baseball became easier for Jackie Robinson a lot faster than it did for Doby. 

 

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Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Plus he had to play in Cleveland.

Cleveland.

Which is not only Cleveland, but has the additional extreme misfortune of being  in Ohio.

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1 hour ago, six-hopper said:

Which is not only Cleveland, but has the additional extreme misfortune of being  in Ohio.

You misspelled Ohiow

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On 11/15/2019 at 1:11 PM, Tigrrfan said:

You misspelled Ohiow

so does everyone else in ohio.

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What I don't understand is why Lou and Tram weren't both voted in together.  I agree that they are both borderline, but both seemed certain to get in these days.  So why didn't anyone figure that it makes sense that two guys who played together for so long as a double-play combo... who are being considered in part because of longevity of their careers... why would they not be considered together?

About the only reason I can think of is that they didn't want people to assume they got in BECAUSE they played together for so long.  But I don't know that anyone would really have argued that they didn't deserve it and only got the nod because of the tenure.

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